EP 313 Is Your Immune System Getting in the Way of Conceiving Your Baby? Caryn Johnson

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Caryn Johnson of @_bondlife shares her personal journey through infertility, detailing her struggles with unexplained infertility and the eventual discovery of autoimmune issues affecting her reproductive health. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the immune system's role in fertility and the impact of lifestyle factors such as diet, stress, and environmental toxins. Caryn advocates for women to take charge of their health by educating themselves and seeking out supportive healthcare practitioners. She also discusses her supplement line, Bond, which aims to address these issues holistically.

Takeaways

• Caryn's journey began with unexplained infertility.

• She experienced multiple failed IVF attempts.

• The immune system plays a crucial role in fertility.

• Many women with unexplained infertility have underlying immune issues.

• Stress and lifestyle factors significantly impact reproductive health.

• Gut health is linked to fertility and autoimmune conditions.

• Caryn's research led her to create a supplement line, Bond.

• Advocacy and education are essential for women facing infertility.

• Environmental toxins can affect fertility outcomes.

• Women should empower themselves with knowledge about their health.

Guest Bio:

Caryn Johnson is the Co-Founder and CEO of BOND, an innovative line of supplements reimagining hormone and reproductive health, inspired by her experience with infertility. The former Vital Proteins Chief Marketing Officer launched BOND in the Fall of 2023, fusing her professional expertise with her passion to help women take a more proactive and empowered approach to caring for their cycle and reproductive health.

In 2017, when trying to start a family, Caryn learned she was autoimmune infertile. What she discovered was a stark reality - the lack of open conversations and support for women facing similar struggles. The doctor's office often left much unsaid, and the information available was surprisingly scarce. Shocked by the limited support system in place, Caryn recognized the need for a change. She leaned on her industry knowledge and contacts to advocate for herself and uncover invaluable resources. Her personal journey became a catalyst for a larger mission to make her learnings accessible to women everywhere. It was this experience that led her to create BOND. 

A natural born innovator, Caryn is disrupting the marketplace with this new line of products that offers women the opportunity to take control of their reproductive health before it’s too late. BOND’s proprietary formulations, designed to preserve fertility potential and lay the foundation for a healthier body, feature science-backed ingredients that work together to balance hormones, protect egg health, and provide cycle support. With BOND, Caryn aims to address women’s health more holistically and encourage a more proactive conversation around reproductive wellness. 

Caryn’s career began in marketing and public relations where she worked with many notable beauty brands and PR firms before being recruited as the fifth employee at then startup, Vital Proteins. She was the first marketing hire at the organization and ultimately, became the company’s Chief Marketing Officer leading the team through the brand’s acquisition by Nestle Health Sciences. Following her tenure at Vital Proteins, Caryn took on the challenge of leading Owlet, a baby monitor company focused on preventing SIDS, where she served as Chief Marketing Officer and successfully guided the company through its initial public offering.

Caryn lives in Chicago with her husband and two children Elijah and Ruthie. 

You can use coupon code THEWHOLESOME for 20% off all products. https://bond.life

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

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Transcript:

Michelle (00:00)

Welcome to the podcast, Karin.

Caryn Johnson (00:02)

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Michelle (00:05)

It's so nice to meet you. And I know that you do a lot of amazing work helping women I also know that you have your own story that you can share. And I would love to hear your story and really what got you inspired to do the work that you're doing.

Caryn Johnson (00:21)

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm here to share really the start of how I got to where I am today. And that really is rooted in finding out that I couldn't get pregnant. So we can start there and then we can get into all of the details together. But my husband and I met when I was young, early 20s. And by the time we got married many years later, we were already

most right away to start having a family. There was a piece of me inside that knew that I was gonna have some sort of issue. I don't know, you already mentioned that you do visualizations to me before we started. So, you know, like I just had this feeling whether I manifested it for myself or not. I, you know, we did the full year of trying to get pregnant to no success and then went back to our doctor.

Michelle (01:03)

Yeah, yeah.

Caryn Johnson (01:18)

my typical OB-GYN and started the path of IUIs, did four IUIs, had beautiful eggs, each IUI, and reacted to the medicine quite well, but never got a positive from any of those. So we were recommended to move towards IVF. found a reproductive endocrinologist in Chicago, which is where I was located at the time.

started the path to IVF and went through the process of an egg retrieval. Ended up seeing similar to what we saw in the IUIs, which was that my reproductive system performed quite well. And I was able, they were able to retrieve just about 30 eggs from one retrieval, which is quite high, borderline too high, but.

just shows like the reaction to the medicine and the overall viability of my reproductive system. Of that, I had really normal odds and was able to bank close to 14, I believe, quality grade embryos. So I was really excited to move into implantation because at that point,

I just really thought like whatever was unexplained is just kind of, you know, over to the side now. you know, all these things are just working out in my favor. So this is gonna be, you know, it for me, which a lot of women I feel like go into IVF feeling like the IVF center is like the place where you get your baby, which isn't always true. So.

I started doing implantations and I started losing babies. Prior to that point, I had never even tested positive in any sort of like regard for a pregnancy test. And I wasn't one of those that, you know, jumped right off birth control, you know, to move into conception. I hadn't been on birth control for many, many, many, many years, you know, prior to this point. But the implantations started failing and

My doctor said, this embryo was only attached for two hours, maybe a couple of hours is what they said. I just thought, how on earth, like why on earth would something attach for just a couple of hours and then that be the situation where

It just doesn't work out from there. Like what is happening? And you know, got immediately, the immediate response was bad odds. You know, this happens, miscarriage happens. Just keep going. You know, one in four, in eight, you you get all the stats and there's definitely a piece of that when you're not working with really good quality embryos. But you know, I was, I knew that everything was genetically great. knew.

and had no reason to believe that my body wasn't in working order to, you know, produce a pregnancy. So I just started pushing harder and getting a little bit more more fearful of continuing down the path of losing babies because I just, it hit me so hard. Even the loss of two hours, I mean,

I just like, I've never felt sorrow like that. And I didn't, I just didn't feel like myself or really anyone should have to like continue down that path for like the sake of odds. So I started doing my own research and I was at the time experiencing some issues in my digestive system. I also now looking back had a definite cortisol issue.

which relates into the picture, but I was a CMO at Vital Proteins at the time, which is that blue tub collagen company. And so I had a high stress level and I knew that something was going on in my digestive system. This was, you know, 2016, 2015, 2016, 2017. So.

Michelle (05:39)

yeah.

Caryn Johnson (05:58)

almost prior to when we really started, you know, as a world, as a community talking about the microbiome and gut health. But I sought out a naturopath who ended up doing a blood panel on me and told me that I had, you know, hundreds of food sensitivities, which is a

a classic sign of gut dysbiosis, but at the time it wasn't translated back to like an issue in the microbiome. It was treated as like, yes, you have all of these, you have all of these issues with, you know, different foods, just avoid them. And that will be the solve versus, why do you have like, you know, why do you have a hundred things that you can't eat?

Michelle (06:42)

Hmm.

Caryn Johnson (06:46)

like watermelon seeds up to your typical gluten, et cetera. So I just started doing my own research online and I found a book called, Is My Body Baby Friendly? It's written by Dr. Alan Beer, who is now deceased, but it's over 700 pages of the science of how the immune system works with your reproductive system, your hormones, et cetera.

in order to effectively procreate or in order for conception and implantation to occur. And that's when I realized there was something greater going on in my body outside again of just my reproductive system that we just hadn't figured out yet. So I read the book Front to Back. It's a very science heavy book. So I had to do a lot of like

thinking about new terms and figuring and trying to remember what I was learning. At the end of the book, there was a recommendation at the time, there are more doctors now, but at the time for three doctors that practice this type of medicine, which is the field of reproductive immunology. And so,

Michelle (08:01)

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (08:03)

One of those doctors, Dr. Joanne Kwok-Kam of Rosalind Franklin ended up being in my backyard essentially 45 minutes away in the Chicago area. So I took that as a sign that I needed to call and get additional help above and beyond my RE who was doing the IVF. And I called over there and was immediately put on a six month wait list.

So proceeded with the next round of IVF because I was already on some hormones. So I was already going through the round. I had at that point only done my own research. So I wasn't really sure what was going on in my body or if I could believe what I had read because my doctors that were helping me with the IVF weren't really like saying that

They believed in the immunology side of things. They hadn't seen enough research, et cetera. So I wasn't really getting support on what I was researching. So it was around the holidays, October-ish, when I ended up calling into the clinic and I ended up getting a call right around

Thanksgiving that they had a cancellation and I got moved up on the wait list. So I ended up getting into the reproductive immunology clinic many months before they said I would two weeks before my next IVF transfer and that was just an awesome Hail Mary. They did a full ultrasound. So tip to toe thyroid, you know, your whole stomach area inside and outside.

And then they do the craziest blood panel that I've ever done. don't know how you can even draw that much blood, but vials and vials of blood to look at immune markers in addition to hormone markers, vitamin markers, and your typical blood panel. And they called me back 48 hours later and said, need to cancel this implantation. You have the highest level of antibodies that we've ever seen.

not that we've ever seen, but that we're able to track. So you're past like where the chart goes essentially. So if you proceed with your implantation, it's almost definitely gonna end in a miscarriage because your body is gonna fight it off. And at that point I was terrified because that was like the first real something's actually wrong with you that I had heard.

Michelle (10:21)

wow.

Wow.

Caryn Johnson (10:50)

Everything else was just unexplained, unexplained, unexplained. And I just went into shock. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know who to believe. You know, I had two sets of doctors saying different things. So I proceeded with the implantation and I ended up implanting both a boy and a girl embryo. And then

started treatment right away on my immune system through the reproductive immunologist. So what they did was they put me on a series of pretty intense medications to quiet my immune system. And then I did what is called IVIG, which are blood transfusions or infusions that essentially look

to wash your blood of the antibodies that are over protecting the immune system. So I went into this protocol and I ended up getting pregnant. It was positive right away. we saw, so the clinic ended up treating me one to three times a week with this IVIG infusion, which they're about two to three hours long based on, they're based on body weight.

Michelle (11:50)

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (12:14)

I was in their office, you know, at least one to two times a week, also for an ultrasound. So I knew by five weeks that both embryos had attached. you know, at that point, my immune markers were even more all over the place. We couldn't get my immune system to a stable level by any means. And I ended up losing the girl embryo at seven weeks.

her heartbeat slowed and then ultimately it stopped, which is one of the symptoms or issues when you have an autoimmune issue going into a pregnancy. So, you know, that was so sad and devastating and she was higher up in the womb than the boy embryo. So at that point,

It was pretty much 50-50 odds of if she was going to end up coming out and bringing him with her or if she was going to be what's called a vanishing twin, which is when your body reabsorbs the pregnancy for the sake of the other pregnancy, which is really the best case scenario because then you don't lose the other baby.

Michelle (13:18)

my gosh.

Caryn Johnson (13:36)

I was put on bed rest. This was the start of my bed rest between six and seven weeks, which continued until I gave birth, basically. I was able to go to work, but that was pretty much it. And I lived in fear that we were going to lose a little boy, but I ended up reabsorbing the girl embryo. So she never came out and we just really aggressively treated my immune system.

which held on until 34 weeks when I went into basically how the immune system works during the pregnancy is during the first trimester, there is more inflammation that can be in the body and then it has to subside for the second trimester to continue successfully and then your inflammation increases and that's

eventually causes or is part of why you go into labor. But my inflammation and my immune system increased really fast. my water broke early and I ended up having him, you know, early but he was healthy because some of the immune medications included steroids. So he was a little bit bigger than, you know, your typical

34, 35 weaker. But I was able to carry my son and that really started my story of what the heck happened and why is autoimmunity so under researched when it comes to your reproduction and your fertility chances and how can I actually do more now that I have my children here.

Michelle (15:06)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (15:33)

to support other women so they don't have to go through this amount of trauma, right? But also this amount of like research and advocacy for themselves because at the end of the day, like we just can't expect that from everyone and we shouldn't. We should be able to support. Yeah, so I'll take a breath there.

Michelle (15:40)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Wow, that's incredible story. And I mean, it's it's mind boggling, you know, that, nobody really talks about something that is so prevalent. And I do see that a lot, actually. And it could be the reason why you have unexplained infertility or why transfers don't work. And I speak to Amy Ralph, Amy Ralph, she's a

Caryn Johnson (16:19)

Yeah.

Michelle (16:20)

she does the same thing, Chinese medicine. And she talks about this a lot. She says, if you miscarry or you have repeated transfer failures with a good embryo and your doctor doesn't look into like what your lining is doing and how your immune system is working, then go to a different doctor because it's so important to look into that because you could spend so much time.

and you can spend so much money and just so many precious years going through so much loss for something that could be treated but can also be prevented. So I'd love to actually get your input on what you've discovered and how the gut relates to it but maybe other things that you've noticed or learned for the listeners.

Caryn Johnson (16:59)

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think what you're saying is just incredibly important. Like the immune system, I feel like is the secret starting point to a lot of issues. And what's happening in medicine right now is a lot of women are walking away with an unexplained infertility diagnosis, but they're accepting that as a diagnosis, right? When it's not, it's just, it's not an answer.

And if you look underneath kind of that answer, you see a lot of crazy statistics, such as over 65 % of women who have unexplained infertility actually have an issue in their immune system. And then similarly over 60 % have an issue in their metabolic system. So blood sugar, insulin, know, early signs of PCOS, et cetera. And then.

Michelle (18:05)

You

Caryn Johnson (18:10)

When you look, you see that there are deep, deep nutrient deficiencies happening in this group of women as well. So you're looking at vitamin D deficiencies, vitamin B deficiencies, magnesium, omegas. All of these start with modulations that occur in the immune system as well. So when you think about it on a deeper level and from the research that I've done,

Michelle (18:23)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Caryn Johnson (18:39)

you're looking at something that's happened to you before it's affecting your hormones and triggering one of these other issues in your reproductive system. So like for instance, not only do I have, you know, autoimmune infertility, I do carry PCOS and adenomyosis as well. And for me, and based on the research that I've done, those are secondary factors.

to my immune system modulating and creating an overly inflammatory environment in my body, which then produced those issues. So we're not going up far enough in the chain of our bodies as to understanding our full systems. And again, it kind of goes back to like what's happening in medicine, which is that our doctors are

Classically trained in our reproductive organs, right? So they know our uterus they know our ovaries they understand how those work, but we need to get into you know, a new phase where we have Practitioners that understand how all of the systems are working together in our body Including our immune system and our endocrine system because they do have such a big and almost starting impact

Michelle (19:57)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caryn Johnson (20:07)

on what's happening with our fertility.

Michelle (20:10)

yeah, I completely agree. And I also I'm wondering, like, what have you seen? Because I think that when you talked about the food sensitivities, you were saying that it's okay, I'm allergic to so many things, or I'm sensitive to so many things, but why? So like, what are the things that you've seen that cause it to begin with?

Caryn Johnson (20:28)

Yeah.

Yeah. So there are a couple of things that I see as a starting factors. One is overall stress. So if you can't keep your stress in check, you can't keep your cortisol levels in check, then your adrenal function will not perform in the rest of your hormones will not function correctly, which then trickles into some of these other problems. and then you get into other factors like what you're putting in your body.

the nutrition that you have or you don't have. They're saying the American diet is still between 60 and 80 % processed food. So we're putting still mostly junk into our systems that's modulating and creating these environments that we don't want. Number three is dysbiosis of the gut, right? Which is a huge factor in

Michelle (21:13)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Caryn Johnson (21:31)

overall well-being and then your chances at fertility because what happens is that if your gut is in dysbiosis, your mucosal lining is disrupted and all of the toxins that are supposed to be in this like, think of it like pipe in your body, piped to get to the outside are now permeating that pipe and moving into your system and causing again, these major inflammation issues.

these, this uproar of immune response that is hard to counteract. You know, once you have that level of bacteria and then toxins that are entering the bloodstream. And then the last kind of reason that you would be kind of in this situation is just based on what's going on in your environment. So are you living in a city, you know,

that a lot of people in Detroit, for instance, there's a bigger rate of infertility there versus, you know, your non-city residents. It's also based on the toxins that enter your home. So are you getting rid of your plastics? Are you looking at the cleaning supplies you're using, the makeup you're putting on your face? It seems simple, but this toxic overload, again,

Michelle (22:52)

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (22:55)

creates this inflammatory response, which modulates your immune system. So those are really the four categories that kind of put you in this place. And then it kind of gets into epigenetics, which is like, you know, you've created this new world for yourself that your body has become. And, you know, is it going to be like that or are you going to be able to get yourself out of it?

Michelle (23:23)

Yeah. my God. It's so important and it's true. We hear all the different factors and actually those toxins and the endocrine disruptors can be found in food, I mean, through pesticides and that can also impact your gut dysbiosis. so it's just, it's like an entangled web and it really is like a reflection of how we're living today and what's allowed in this country, which

Caryn Johnson (23:38)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Michelle (23:50)

I'm starting to get more and more frustrated with, you know, the fact that other countries are protecting their citizens more from chemicals and pesticides and things that are harming not only our health and chronic disease, also future. it's, it's unbelievable. And for that reason, I often tell people just go gluten free. It's not that.

Caryn Johnson (23:58)

Yeah.

Gosh, get me started on glyphosate. It's so sad.

Mm-hmm.

Michelle (24:16)

It's not that wheat is bad. And actually, as a matter of fact, a lot of people don't have those same responses if they go to Spain or Italy, even though it's not considered GMO, they have genetically modified it over the years. So there's so many aspects. So sometimes I'm just like, just remove it, And I see people feeling a lot better.

Caryn Johnson (24:26)

Right.

Yeah.

Michelle (24:41)

just from that, and especially with autoimmune conditions, actually that like going gluten free can really help. That's what I've seen.

Caryn Johnson (24:50)

Yeah, no, definitely. It's just our food source is really sad. And it's just, it's so hard to pinpoint at the end of the day because no one really has the exact answer. But I just like, you see the data, like women who are eating on a Mediterranean diet have a lower risk of endometriosis.

Michelle (24:55)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (25:15)

women who have like vitamin sources through green leafy vegetables don't have as much PMS. So like the correlations are there. It's just like, how do we get people to make better decisions for their body and understand like, don't be me, don't make bad decisions and then get into a position where you can't have the life that you wanted or dreamed of, or you have to fight so hard for it because

Michelle (25:16)

Right.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (25:43)

of choices you made earlier in your life from lack of knowledge, you know?

Michelle (25:47)

Right. Yeah, totally. And then I also look at the nervous system, which is what you're, I feel like it's really linked to the cortisol issue, like the high stress, because we're constantly being bombarded with too much information. Really, I think too much information that our nervous system is able to translate. And I think that takes a trickle down effect into our bodies. I'm very big on like mind body because of that, you know, like that, that's one aspect, but of course, I mean, there's so many

Caryn Johnson (26:02)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Michelle (26:16)

Like I said, it's like a web and every single piece matters. And that's what you were talking about before with medicine, looking at the body as a whole, as a functioning system, rather than just one part.

Caryn Johnson (26:21)

you

Right, right. And just going back to your comment on cortisol, you know, a lot of it does start with cortisol because if you put yourself into too high of a cortisol state, your body doesn't produce enough hormones. It basically triggers all of your other hormones to act inappropriately. It goes into your progesterone receptor.

Michelle (27:00)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caryn Johnson (27:00)

pretends it's progesterone and then it goes on your thyroid and says slow down, slow down. Your body doesn't have enough energy for this and your thyroid slows. So it's really like easy to dismiss like, yeah, I'm so stressed but I don't have to be stressed today and to understanding like if your body is in a constant state of stress, like the impact it can truly have on your system and on your hormones because

Michelle (27:27)

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (27:30)

I guess also people think of like cortisol is like over here and then estrogen and progesterone as like over here because they work through different axes of the body, right? But it's all related because if you knock one off, you're messing with the others. So I just, I wish people ultimately would understand that cortisol is a huge starting factor to their fertility journey as well.

Michelle (27:38)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yes.

Caryn Johnson (27:57)

and to a hormone journey if they're not on the road to fertility.

Michelle (28:02)

Yes, because ultimately the body's always going to favor survival. And when you're in high cortisol, your body's basically or something is signaling your body to let it know it's not safe. So when you're constantly in this state of feeling unsafe, your body's going to worry about other things and put off other factors that it would normally pay attention to when you do feel safe.

Caryn Johnson (28:08)

Yeah.

Right.

Michelle (28:32)

And being in this chronically is just not conducive to high vitality period.

Caryn Johnson (28:32)

Right.

Yeah, I feel like at least we're in a better state of mind, like as a world where, you know, 10 years ago it was chic and cool to be like chronically stressed and like drinking like three cups of coffee in the morning and like running yourself ragged. Like I feel like everyone understands a little bit more that they shouldn't. It's just about like knowing your body and actually being able to say to yourself like, no, this isn't how I should.

Michelle (28:52)

It's true. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.

Caryn Johnson (29:09)

be feeling. This isn't how I want to keep stress or maintain like my day-to-day life.

Michelle (29:17)

No doubt that we are getting educated like never before. like, it's, it's one of those things that when like the information comes out and we start to open our eyes, it's painful because we're realizing things that are not working. However, even though it's painful, it's actually helping us in the long run. And it's kind of like the, blessing and the curse of social media and all of the technology, but the blessing is information.

Caryn Johnson (29:28)

Right.

Yeah.

Michelle (29:45)

that is very important for us to know it's important for us to receive. So that aspect of it is really important. And then talk to us about your supplement product bond. And I know that you created that based on really your own frustration and it's become your baby. And I want to know what specifically or how does that address autoimmunity conditions for people who are going through that or?

Caryn Johnson (30:03)

Yeah.

Michelle (30:14)

least thinking maybe to look into their immunity in regards to their fertility, listening to this.

Caryn Johnson (30:21)

Yeah, absolutely. So I launched Bond just about a year ago. I concepted it. took a year prior to that from concept to launch.

So really it started in the world of advocacy for me. I was just really looking to help other women getting involved in some Facebook groups, some communities. you know, there's not a lot of knowledge, a lot of people talking about this yet. There certainly wasn't, you know, even just a few years ago. so I, I took a speaking opportunity in Detroit and

I went to Wayne State University, which is where they do a lot of the research for autoimmune infertility. the main head of that clinic asked me to come and speak to the researchers because they do all of this research and it's isolated into their facility. They don't actually see the impact of what's going on with women who are going through this.

Michelle (31:24)

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (31:25)

so I got to share my story and, you know, had a really nice day there learning and seeing their facility, their lab, what's going on. And on the drive home is really when it clicked for me that there's a lack of, or there's a gap in what's going on research wise and, know, what's being discussed and what's being carried out and brought to.

the consumer or the public's attention. And I just felt like if I didn't take a larger stand to do something bigger to help women, that we'd be many, many more years behind even. So I went back to my house in Chicago, sat in my basement and did just clinical research for months. And I logged over 300 clinical studies, all centered around

the immune system and how it relates to hormones to the reproductive system and built my thinking for original skews, which were, which are daily balance, which is our best seller conception boost, vitality, and cycle care on this thinking first. so it really started with research before it was brought forward to healthcare practitioners and then formulated out.

And a lot of the research that went into each of the products is above and beyond supporting the reproductive organs. So when you look at daily balance as a whole, it has 15 vitamins and nutrients in it. And a lot of those vitamins and nutrients were chosen to not only support hormone balance, but to take that up a level and to support the immune system as it relates to being a predecessor to hormone balance. So

adding a vitamin D, which is a huge hormone regulator, putting fiber, five grams of it into a supplement so that women are potentially protecting their gut lining better and producing those short chain fatty acids that are going to protect their gut in a way that just probiotics don't. Adding in a probiotic blend that

we studied as being healthy strains, or not healthy strains, but strains from healthy fertile women. So really focusing on these immune factors and how they pull into the world of fertility. But to the public now, you know, almost simplifying that message and making it more of like the underlying theme because we're still not necessarily totally there.

so the ingredients exists in these formulas with so much thinking and thought as it relates to the whole body. and then the formulas come out and, they're focused on hormone balance, right? As well as we have a conception product, and then we have our cycle care product, which is focused on, PMS support. So PMS, symptom alleviation, and then hormone detoxification.

Michelle (34:16)

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (34:44)

So they all have an immune angle, also address a hormonal need. 

And the other great thing too is that you can shop at a discount as a special thanks for listening to us here. You can head over to the link. We'll link it here with this podcast episode and use the code, the wholesome to get 20 % off your order.

Michelle (34:54)

Awesome. And do you have information on your site, just like support for people wanting to learn more?

Caryn Johnson (35:00)

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. we're starting to add more and more to our site. I wrote a white paper on how the microbiome affects fertility that you can download off of our website as well to get more information. And yeah, we share a lot on social too with, you know, article connections there. So that's another great way to keep up with kind of like up and coming research that we're seeing.

Michelle (35:32)

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Johnson (35:33)

But yeah, I would say too, just going back to one other thing you mentioned earlier on the, on the doctor front, the best thing to do as a consumer, like when you're hitting these issues is to bring the articles in and show them to your doctor and choose advocacy for yourself. Because I found that the response from them is far greater when you have data in your hands as to why you want to.

Michelle (35:51)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Caryn Johnson (36:03)

add a supplement, think about a different form of medication, think about a different program that might make sense for your system. So I would say, you know, that is as important as ever. And, you know, what we try to do more and more is link that PIMD article, like when we post something so that you can find the actual source and see for yourself, you know?

Michelle (36:24)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caryn Johnson (36:31)

read the information and make smart decisions.

Michelle (36:31)

Mm-hmm.

I love that. That's great. I'm all about empowerment. think that we need a lot of that now. So this is great information. I really appreciate you sharing your story for people listening. And for people who want to find you and learn more, how can they find you?

Caryn Johnson (36:41)

Yeah.

Thank

Sure, so our website is bond.life. Our Instagram is underscore bond life and we're, you know, a newer company. I'm still really involved on our social. So we love to take DMs and interact with people one-on-one that way. If you have any questions or want to get into, you know, what you might be experiencing and what our different products are, like we're happy to get into it with you and.

I will say for anyone that wants to shop on bond on our website, absolutely love to support you. And again, really the place to start with, with us is our daily balance product. has the baseline of nutritionals you need to support your

nutrients stores, your hormonal balance, and of course, your immune system. that is our purple bag on the website there. But Michelle, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity.

Michelle (37:57)

Yeah, it was great having you on and having this conversation, which I feel like is so important because it is kind of like the big question mark that a lot of people are facing when they're trying to conceive. So thank you so much for coming on.

Caryn Johnson (38:09)

Yeah, you're welcome.

EP 267 | Five Things You Should Look Into If You’re Trying To Conceive

On today's episode, I'm going to talk about five things you should look into if you're experiencing fertility challenges. And some of these things may actually provide answers if you have been diagnosed with unexplained infertility. It’s important to note that this episode is not meant to give any medical advice and it is not meant to override what your healthcare provider has diagnosed you with or has advised you to do, but it is something that may help uncover a lot of questions that you have. So, staytuned.

In this episode I will go over:

-Common ways to uncover hidden reasons for unexplained infertility.

-Why your gut can be a key factorin your fertility health.

-What type of doctor you should choose to get baseline tests

Click here to save your spot in the Winter Cohort of The Wholesome Fertility Transformation! https://www.michelleoravitz.com/Fertility-Transformation-Group-Coaching

Pick up your free e-book mentioned in the podcast here:

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/making_the_clean_choice_for_fertility

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus

 Before I get to today's podcast episode, I have an exciting announcement to make. Over the past few months, I've been working very hard to create a program that gives you the main things you've been asking for. Hands on support for me, access to my proven foundational framework, and community and accountability.

Most importantly, I've created this program to take you off the roller coaster of your fertility struggles and give you the tools to transform your fertility in just eight weeks.  I am honored to introduce you to The Wholesome Fertility Transformation.  A live eight week coaching program  designed to guide you through a proven, evidence based method of my signature program called The Wholesome Fertility Method. And that is the framework, but it will also provide hands on support with me to help you improve your chances of conceiving. So 

I'll be running this program only four times a year, and each cohort is aligned with seasons, winter, spring, summer, and fall.

Because each season only supports 10 people, it will have limited spots available. I will be putting a link on the episode notes that you can find it, and if you're interested, I would definitely do it as soon as possible because I am limiting the amount of people because I want to make it an intimate experience for all the participants so that I'm really able to help each individual.

This program not only includes coaching calls, but it also has an initial onboarding call with me, which is a one on one. So it definitely. is catered to customize your specific needs and your specific questions. And I'm so excited to announce this. It is the first time ever that I'm doing this and it is open for a limited time.

So if you are interested and you've been listening to this podcast , and you feel aligned with the things that I've been sharing, this will be that times a thousand so it really is my heart and soul poured into a program. It's also something where I will be there live with you to walk you through and help you to absolutely boost your chances of conceiving.

And I work very hard to make sure that everybody I work with gets the most benefits and gets the outcome they signed up for. So I look forward to seeing you there!

Transcript:[00:00:00]

Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. On today's episode, I'm going to talk about five things you should look into if you're experiencing fertility challenges. And some of these things may actually provide answers if you have been diagnosed with unexplained infertility. Now, this episode is not meant to giveany medical advice and it is not meant to override. What your healthcare provider has diagnosed you with or has advised you to do, but it is something that may help uncover a lot of questions that you have. So, stay tuned. So the following five things I'm going to be talking about are things that I think can help uncover, especially if you have been diagnosed with unexplained infertility.Number one, I'm going to talk about testing. So hopefully you guys have already been tested, but this is something that sometimes I do get patients and they're experiencing fertility challenges and to my surprise, they[00:01:00]haven't gotten baseline tests, which can really help a lot. Especially just to rule out anything major. So number one, I do suggest that everybody get baseline tests with their doctors.And most of the time. Either your OB will cover these tests, and a lot of times they do. A reproductive endocrinologist is a better choice just because they specialize in reproductive medicine. And the OBs usually do understand a little bit, but they're not as well versed as a reproductive endocrinologist.

And typically a reproductive endocrinologist will pay a little more attention to things like your thyroid and more anything really that has to do with fertility. So they are types of doctors that I recommend going to if you are experiencing fertility challenges, just because you're going to get a lot more of a[00:02:00]thorough workup.

And some of these baseline tests they usually do are day two, three of your period.And typically blood is drawn during that time. And they check for lots of different hormones, but that's where they find out your FSH and how high it is. And if that means that your ovaries aren't responding as well.

And then they also check typically a full thyroid panel.

So basically it's a bunch of different hormones that give a lot of insight to the doctor to figure out what's going on. And again, this is a baseline and typically this is really where a lot of doctors will start. Another thing that they will recommend, and it is a little bit more of a procedure, but it's not terrible.

It's not like they put you under, but an HSG to make sure that your tubes are clear.Again, it's a, bit of a procedure, it's not the most comfortable thing in the[00:03:00]world. But once it's over, typically, you should feel fine. And I do highly recommend doing that because You could look into everything and not figure out why things aren't working But then when you find out if your tubes are partially or fully blocked it's important for so many reasons because you need toknow if that's the reason why you're not conceiving and then it can also lead you into Looking into other things like was there pelvic inflammation, or you can also look into possibly endometriosis, like what could it be that's possibly blocking your tubes?

And that can kind of lead you into a whole host of other things, but things that are actually really important to look into. And also, if it's partially blocked, it can cause an increased chance of ectopic pregnancy, which is dangerous. And that's something that you really want to look into. So, those[00:04:00]are the reasons why I think it's really important to look into an HSG, because everything thatyou're doing, taking care of yourself, you can go to acupuncture, you could do lots of different natural ways of trying It's not going to make a difference if your tubes are blocked.

So that's something that's really important to look into. Typically they'll also do an ultrasound and that's where they'll look at like your number of follicles and how they're growing. If there are too many, which typically you'll see with PCOS andt hey call it polycystic ovary. And the cysts are actually lots of follicles that are growing, but they're not fully maturing and not fully ovulating.

So, that will also give you insight on which direction you should go into. And then also, let's not forget about the men, a semen analysis, and they also do ultrasounds, and they look into the sperm and how they're operating, if they're Shape is optimal, and that typically will be the morphology, the look at the number,[00:05:00]is it high enough to make a difference, and also the motility, how they move, and how much semen there is.

Sometimes they can be dehydrated and not have enough seminal fluid. So all those things are definitely important to look at and then with an ultrasound They'll look to make sure that all the parts are okay and like with women they'll look at like the tubes and men Sometimes they'll see that there's a varicose cell, which is basicallyAn enlarged vein that can cause issues with the sperm as well so it's important to really just get baselines for everybody and typically that will be covered with insurance and But that really, it depends on the office, it depends on the state, I don't know, like, or it depends on the type of insurance you have, but typically labs are covered by insurance and so that's number one.

You really want to rule out like the big stuff and that is with mainstream medicine[00:06:00] conventional medicine baseline testing you want to make sure that You just rule out like all the big things. So that's number one I think everybody should be doing this regardless if you end up wanting to get IVF or not I think a lot of people gethesitant about going to a fertility clinic because they think That that means they'regoingto do IVF. They may suggest IVF. You don't have to say yes or no you couldjust go and get the tests One thing that I can say is they will know what they'redoing as far as the testing goes So it is important to at least just gather informationand they will be better to go to them for information when it comes to fertilityThen your OB because your OB does a bunch of other things, but they're notspecifically specialized in fertility You want somebody who's specialized andreally understands what it meansand what the body's supposed to do And what isout of whack and what are things that are like red flags to pay attention to?So that's something that I definitely[00:07:00]suggest Number two, connected totesting, but functional testing, so that's a little bit different. It's a little bit more detailed, so for example, the Dutch test, that's something that I run. It stands for Dried Urine Test for Comprehensive Hormones, and it really is an amazing test. Ilove it. And all you have to do is really urinate at a certain time of the month, and that basically, they'll have you urinate at different times of the day so that they can see how your hormones fluctuate. That's really why this test is so superior is because Usually when you go and get tests, it's one snapshot at one time of the day and this test will take those snapshots throughout the day throughout to see like what is your waking cortisol and are you waking up enough?Do you possibly have signs of adrenal fatigue and sometimes[00:08:00] even though we're not diagnosing, sometimes you will see patterns that typically happen with low thyroid, but what that could do is it can alert. The person that you're working with or, you know, as a practitioner to go and get further tests done with your doctor. And also we can look into progesterone. So perhaps you might need progesterone.It also looks into how your estrogen is metabolizing in your body. And if you're estrogen dominant, if you have the right type of estrogen, your, your body's really processing it correctly. It also looks at your melatonin at night, which is really important. It's important for many different reasons, and it also looks into your DHEA and confirms if you're ovulating. So there's so many things that it does, and it even looks into certain nutrients that you have in your body. Like glutathione or B12.So, do you need to supplement with[00:09:00]more glutathione? It gives thepractitioner a little more detail and a little bit more guidance on how to treat youmore specifically.So, I highly recommend the Dutch test at least once. to really get a clear picture ofwhat's happening in your system. And then if it is imbalanced, I would definitelysuggest doing it again after a couple of months of implementing certain diet andsupplement regimens and lifestyle suggestions that your practitioner gives you.So that's definitely something that I would look into. So another thing that I highlysuggest from functional testing is food sensitivity tests. Because that's going tohelp you understand if there are certain foods that are irritating your system. If youare sensitive to foods that can cause inflammation, it basically is going to drainyour body because when your body is resistant to something and it's causing kindof like a hyper immunity,then it's going to drain the energy of your body.

And we don't[00:10:00]want that. That's number one. Number two, if you do endup getting more inflamed, then you're not going to be able to absorb nutrients correctly. You want your nutrient absorption. to be as efficient as possible because you want your energy, which happens from nutrient absorption. You want yourenergy to be as efficient as possible because conception takes a lot of energy.High energy is required for reproduction to occur. So that is definitely something that I would highly recommend and I think is very important. So related to that, I would definitely recommend, if you can, gut testing as well. And that you could doat home from a functional test for gut. And typically, you'll get a small sample ofthe stool. It's not as bad as it seems. You just take a little like sample of your poop.While you're wiping and then you send it you put it in a little vial and you[00:11:00]send it in and what that does is they check your microbiome, andtheycan also look at factors that contribute to inflammation in the body and I've workedwith people for months and then once we started to do, we've done a gut test.like months later, my patient decided she wanted to do it. Not everybody wants todo itbecause it is costly, but her choice to do it actually helped me as thepractitioner to see, to get more insight on shifting our supplements.And I'll be honest, that was huge. It was a key factor and it really did change a lotbecause she ended up getting pregnant. Like shortly after so it definitely helpedlower the inflammation. We got a little bit of a better Insight on what was going onin her gut and the guts really important when it comes to fertility health Somethingelse I recommend.This is another test which is often[00:12:00]ignored or Maybe not even ignoredpeople don't even know about it And that is vaginal microbiome testing. So,basically, it's a swab in the vagina and you basically send it in and it tests for themicrobiome of the vagina.Like, basically, if also not just the microbiome but alsothe acidity.And what they found is that there is a correlation, which is fascinating, withinflammation in the uterus. and an imbalanced vaginal microbiome. And there'salso a correlation betweenunexplained infertility and an imbalance of vaginalmicrobiome. And it's also linked with frequent miscarriages, and it's also linked with failed IVF transfers.So that is really, that was blew me away when I saw it. I remember going to Megasporobiotic, the company that makes it, it's[00:13:00] a probiotic that I highly recommend and the company that makes it, they're called Microbiome Labs, and I went one weekend and saw a bunch of speakers, one of which was Dr. JoleneBrighton, and she talked about this.She talked about the importance of vaginal microbiome, and I was floored becauseI couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe What it was connected to and all of thethings, I mean, just to think that women are going through months and months andmonths andmonths and not even realizing that this is the case or if they're trying toprepare their body for a transfer and not realizing that they need to protectthemselves and, and make sure that this is not an issue because they're spending somuch money.So that was fascinating. And another thing that I found fascinating was once Istarted learning more about this and implementing it. I had one patient who wasdoing her retrieval and transfer in Spain, and so she already did the[00:14:00]retrieval. She had eggs, and she was going to go for her transfer in Spain.In Spain, it is commonplace to check the vaginal microbiome, and they actuallyalways give vaginal suppositories, so that would be the solution if there is an issue,is vaginal suppositories that are probiotics. And that should start to regulate it. Soshe was getting ones from Spain. I was really fascinated.And interestingly enough, she ended up getting pregnant. So it was a successfultransfer, but I thought it was so fascinating that that is something that is so ignoredreally in the US. So that's something that I started. to a lot of my patients who arehaving unexplained infertility, frequent miscarriages or any kind of imbalance thatseems to point in that direction.So that's something that I definitely suggest looking into.And what these tests can do is provide more insight on what's going on, moreclarity,[00:15:00]really, to understand. So you're not guessing, and you're nottrying so many different things for so long, almost like a shot in the dark, withoutrealizing, like, really what's going on.And the difference with functional testing, I mean, the, I guess the con is thatthey're out of pocket. They're not really covered by insurance, but they're a lotmore sensitive to things that are often missed in conventional testing. So that Idefinitely recommend doing if you can. And then number three.

Look into your energy. So I touched on this a little bit on the functional testing about energy and how important it is to have energy when itcomes to conception.Conception is a very energy dependent process on your body and it needs a lot of fuel. A lot of fuel. And oftentimes, We are having energy leaks that we[00:16:00]don't even realize are goingon. And ask yourself, are you energy deficient? So, typically, if you feel especiallyafter eating, you feel really drained, there might be something that you need tolook into with your digestion.Or are you feeling drained at the end of the day? Are you getting enough sleep?Are you sleeping solid throughout the night? Or is it disrupted? It's not even aboutquantity, it's more about quality when it comes to sleep. Are there things orrelationships that are draining you emotionally? I'll be honest, emotions areincredibly taxing if there are like certain negative emotions that you're feeling orsadness or frustration with certain relationships and sometimes you might need toreally Make those boundaries firm so that you are not exposing yourself to thingsthat are very energy draining Especiallywhen you're going through this journey.So in this[00:17:00]journey, I always tell my patients my clients It's important toprotect yourself. It's important to protect your personal energy and You shouldn'thave to feel bad about it. So like if it meanslearning to say no, then that's what itmeans you have to learn to say no because ultimately, this is more important and ittakes priority over everything and sometimes that means you have to draw firmboundaries around yourself and you're around your spouse and just really protectyour own energy and not be around certain relationships or certain people orcertain things that can drain that energy.So, it's really important to look into your energy and I highly suggest Even startingto journal could be like a little energy journal prompt looking into what is drainingyou Are there certain things that you feel like you're putting up with and justwriting a[00:18:00]list and I remember doing that one time Because I had a coachthat was telling me to do thatLike what are the things that you are putting up with?I think that is such a great question What are things that you're putting up withbecause we all have things that we put up with and then just writing a list and then you can obviously Take out the ones that you can't not put up with. I mean, there's certain things that you just can't avoid. Okay. So that those are important things that you really can't escape, but then ask yourself, what are the things that you really don't need to be putting up with and how are ways that you can shut that down or close it off so that you won't have to put up with it?Because little by little, all that does is it really sheds light. on what it is in your life that's like sucking little bits of energy. So it could be little leaks. It doesn't have to be big. And I'll be honest, I'll give you one example, having a pile of clutter in the corner of your[00:19:00]room that you're like, you know, I'll get to this one day.living with that, every single time you see that clutter, it's going to leak a little bit of energy. So sometimes just taking that day out of your weekend and just saying, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to actually take care of this list. I'm going to get rid of these things that have been hanging over my head.And that is a way to close an energy leak. Creating boundaries with people that drain you. That is another way. Setting boundaries at work, that's another way. I mean, there's little things. Expressing yourself for something that has not been expressed or you've been afraid to express.It might be uncomfortable, but that's another way that you can protect your energy.Because when you are holding onto something that you're not expressing and that needs to be said, That could be draining your energy. That's just like holding on to something that's like slowly brewing and sucking your energy.So forgiveness, that's another way of protecting your energy. Letting go ofsomething, letting go of[00:20:00]certain resentments. I know it's very simplisticand it's not something that's going to happen overnight in certain cases, but theseare things to just keep in mind because it's almost like a great example is likeiPhone.All the things that are running in the background. Make it less energy efficient. It'snot going to function as well So what are the things that are lying in the background of your life and they could be on all levels that are making you?Drained so those are things to keep in mind. Are you also over exercising and thenI'm going toactually go into eating because that Definitely can impact if you're overeating that is not energy efficient if you're under eating that is not Energy efficient.So that takes us into number four, which is, are you eating enough or are you overeating? Are you eating what is good for your body? Are you eating energy richfoods? Are you eating processed foods, which are pretty much dead food in a package?[00:21:00]And yes, there are some freeze dried foods that are not so bad and they are made from whole foods.from real grown foods and they don't have tons of ingredients that you can't pronounce. So those are not so bad. They're kind of like in the middle, but are you eating things with lots of processing? Basically food that has no life or are youeating whole foods things that are nourishing your body?Things that your body's compatible with because it could be something that's grown that your body just doesn't respond well to. And that kind of takes us back.See, this is kind of everything's connected. It takes us back to the functional testing, the food sensitivities. Are you eating things that are right with your body?And truthfully, you can figure that out without necessarily having to do a test.Sometimes just writing a journal of how you feel when you eat certain foods, oreven just paying attention. Like, you know what, whenever I eat dairy, I havediarrhea. Well, that can't be[00:22:00]good. So like things like that, like how doesmy body Feel.Do I get really bloated after I eat bread? I was bloated for years and years andyears and I ignored that. And eventually I quit gluten and my energy shot up. Sothat's another thing. So like, are you eating the right foods? Are you eating avariety of foods? So the gut microbiome loves, again, we're makinganotherconnection.The gut microbiome loves variety. Trying to, you know, eating different things, eating different fibers, different like really the rainbow when it comes to your vegetables and your fruits and having healthy fats, having seeds, nuts, you know, things that feel good to your body and give you energy and also not overstuffing yourself because then your body can't absorb correctly your food.Are you taking time to chew when you are eating? When you're taking time to chew, you're helping your digestive system. You're pretty[00:23:00]much preparing it so that it's almost like that sous chef. You're the sous chef for your body's kitchen. And when you're chewing it, and properly chewing it, you're preparing it so that it's able to cook well and transform into nutrients that yourbody can use.So doing that plus obviously the chewing, but as you're chewing longer, you're alsomixing in that amazing enzyme rich saliva. which is also helping your digestion. So those are things that are really important to do. Making sure that you have areally good proper diet that is nourishing for your body.And I'll be honest, the diet alone can make such a difference for fertility health.Just the diet alone.So, on to number five, and this is The last one, and it's a very important one, isyour home clean of toxic ingredients?[00:24:00]And I'm going to mentionsomething before I even go into this. Nobody's going to get it 100%. So don't try,because that can cause a whole other level of OCD that I've seen. However, it isimportant enough, and it really does make a difference, that It is important enoughto bring up.There are many ways that Endocrine disruptors can come into our life and one ofthem which I see a lot is plastics If you can avoid all plastics andnot just the onesthat say BPA free Really try to avoid all plastics that being said if I'm away AndI'm pretty because I know all of this stuff. It does make me a little OCD, I guess,but if I'm away and all I can have is a plastic bottle of water, I have a plastic bottleof water.It's not like you have to do things 100 percent all the time because you don't wantto stress yourself out. It can be. too overwhelming.[00:25:00]But if you can,instead, at home at least, you can get yourself a container, a bottle that is glass orstainless steel, and then you can look into like green pan or like more non toxic Ihonestly, sometimes I'll just, green pan I'll have if I want to do something that'snonstick for certain foods, but for the most part, I will have stainless steel.I just cook with stainless steel. Those are great. There's a little trick to not makingit stick. You can actually put the stainless steel. Pan on the fire or like the stovetopfor a little while. You let it get to a certain level. One of the ways you can test isyou could take a drop of water and put it in.If the drop of water creates a bead. You can wipe it off really quick, and then thatis a perfect temperature. Then you can put the oil, and you can put even a chicken,and it will not stick. So the trick with that, with making it non stick, is to[00:26:00]let it heat, kind of like a fun fact, let it heat to a certain point.I actually remember seeing that online. You could find information, you can evenGoogle on YouTube if you really want to see exactly how to do it. You Google or you search on YouTube how to make a stainless steel pan non stick. And so that is the simplest way to have clean products. Ceramics are good too, so you have to just be aware of that and then there are certain ones that have been tested with less, the ceramics as far as plates, not having lead because there have been tested products that have shown that they do.So those are things that you can look into. And then, ingredients for products.There's many ways. There's ewg. org. You know, there's certain ways that you can look it up so that it's not as overwhelming. There are definitely ingredients that can be endocrine disruptors[00:27:00]to make it simple so that it's not as overwhelming I actually created an e book so you could check that out I'm going to put it in the episode notes and it's called making the clean choice for fertility whereI really outline Everything there. It'll also direct you to websites and resources where you can look up certain ingredients to see or products themselves to see what their rating is. So that's going to help a lot as well. So just to simplify it without getting into the details of unpronounceable words. That could be really overwhelming. Just check out my ebook cause it's free. It's got all the information and I will cover pretty much like the big ingredients to avoid and what to look forand how to make it really simple and easy. And the truth is once you do that, once you start to just.Change the ingredients of your products, then it's just going to get easier because you're just[00:28:00]reordering and then you just stay on one specific pattern. So it's not as hard as it seems. It becomes second nature, I promise. So those are the five things that I highly recommend looking into if you're trying to conceive.I think everybody should look into it and that is why I created this episode. I do hope you enjoy this episode and if you have any questions for me, you can always feel free to find me on Instagram. I'm there every day. You can DM me and myInstagram handle is at the wholesome lotus fertility. So thank you so much for tuning in today.

Have a beautiful day.