EP 324 Unlocking the Gut-Brain-Fertility Connection

On this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I dive deep into a fascinating and vital topic—how stress impacts the gut-brain connection and, in turn, your fertility health. We’ll explore how chronic stress affects your nervous system, gut microbiome, and hormonal balance, and I'll share actionable tips to regulate your nervous system, support gut health, and optimize fertility. Tune in to learn how to empower your mind and body for a thriving fertility journey!

Takeaways

• The gut and brain are connected via the vagus nerve, creating a two-way communication system that influences stress and digestion.

• Chronic stress diverts blood flow away from vital organs, impacting digestion, hormone balance, and fertility.

• Practices like diaphragmatic breathing, meditation, and ear massage can activate the vagus nerve, promoting a"rest and digest" state.

• A diverse and healthy gut microbiome supports hormonal health, reduces inflammation, and enhances fertility.

• Emotional stress drains the body’s reserves and can lead to hormonal imbalances like lowered progesterone levels.

• Mindful eating habits, such as chewing food thoroughly and avoiding distractions, improve digestion and gut health.

• Acupuncture and other TCM techniques help regulate the nervous system and support overall fertility wellness.

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

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Transcript:

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. On today's episode, I'm going to be talking about a topic that I've talked about before, but it's a little different. And I am going to be discussing stress and its impact on fertility. Now, I've spoken about stress before, we've had many, many different episodes talking about how stress can impact fertility, and I know a lot of people say, Oh, does it really impact fertility?

Yes. When it gets broken down, absolutely, and indirectly in some ways. So today I'm actually going to be talking about the gut brain connection, how stress can impact the gut and how the gut. is super important for fertility health. So stay tuned.

So I find this topic actually really, really fascinating because the [00:01:00] gut is super smart. Actually, it has its own nervous system and it's really fascinating just how it runs. And I tend to be really fascinated by the nervous system as it is. And I think that the nervous system is one of the things that We don't really pay that much attention to, but it really does make a difference on so many factors and so many things in our body.

And really, it makes such a difference and influence on how we feel in our life and how we perceive the world as well.

And if you really think about the influence of stress on the nervous system, then you can see how it really is a Such a direct relationship. Stress is really how our nervous system reacts and responds to the life around us.

Now, I always say this, I've said this before, and I'm going to say this today again, is that it's not about

[00:02:00]eliminating stress or eradicating stress. As a matter of fact, stress can actually make us stronger. So having moments of stress, I mean, if you think about going to the gym and building muscle, One of the reasons why we get stronger is because of the stress and stress can also impact the bones and help the bones.

So having that extra stress actually strengthens the bones. So stress can actually be something that can be alchemize to help our bodies to help our life like if you have difficulties or challenges in your life, you'll find that it actually makes you stronger and it makes you smarter and it gets you to think about things differently than you would have normally.

And if you don't have that element of stress, then you don't really have that opportunity of growth. So stress is incredibly advantageous when it is not chronic when it's not all the time and we as humans and this is really like even how we learn about the body through Chinese medicine

[00:03:00] is that A lot of things in our bodies and a lot of things in nature run in pulses, it runs in rhythms.

So when you have something all the time without that break, that's when it can lead to imbalance. So when you have like pulses of stress or things that come and go, That is when the body is able to have the pulse and then it goes back into a more yin phase. I've spoken about the yin and the yang, which are really two opposing opposites that need each other in order to create harmony and balance.

And that harmony and balance is something that conventional medicine will say or call homeostasis. And homeostasis is basically a state that the body always strives for in order to thrive. And that is the ultimate. So homeostasis is that balance that keeps us in check. It keeps the hormones in check. It keeps everything in check.

Now, in order to have that, we

[00:04:00] can't have too much yang or too much yin. We need the two. And this is how we have a pulse. A pulse is something that goes back and forth. and that back and forth is what keeps things in balance. So it can go back and forth, but then eventually grow into strength. So having that stress, but then having that recovery and that combination of the two is what actually gets us stronger.

However, many cases our nervous system is hyper stimulated, hyper meaning over. So overstimulated by electronics, by sound, by things that are typically not occurring in nature if we were to be living really in accordance with nature and what we used to do in the past when we didn't have all these man made things like light at night or really loud noises from the garbage truck things that are

[00:05:00]really not Something that you find in nature sounds that you don't really hear in nature, bright lights that you don't see in nature, things that are not typical to what our bodies are actually programmed to be used to, and also to understand the process.

So when we have that extreme hyper stimulation all the time, and now I'm not even talking about the emotional stress. I'm just talking about. So I'm going to talk about the stressors that we are exposed to day in and day out that also stimulate our nervous system. And by stimulating it all the time, it actually weakens it.

It makes you more tired. So in Chinese medicine, we talk about excess and deficiency, and that's kind of like the yin and the yang. And when we have too much excess, it can lead to deficiency because the body has to process that excess. And when there's just too much coming at it at once, it can make it more deficient.

Just think

[00:06:00] about a computer. If you're throwing in so many different software and really loading it up over time, it's going to get slower and it's going to get in the way of its ability to process signals and it takes a little longer to do things.

So now that we covered that aspect of stress, there's also emotional stress, and if you notice, emotions actually take a lot of energy in the body, and so having that stress chronically of emotions, that drains the body of reserves, and it can also impact it. how we feel and impact the state of our brains.

And it also has been shown to create a more incoherent state of brain waves. And that's been studied and observed in HeartMath Institute where they study the heart brain coherence. And it's really, really fascinating work because they're actually seeing that there's a relationship between the heart and the brain and the heart has

[00:07:00] always been in Chinese medicine said to house the brain, which is interesting because nobody really understood from a conventional medicine perspective, what that really meant.

Or it was kind of like, okay, well that's, I guess their perspective on it or their theory. But now science is actually showing that that is really in fact true. And as a matter of fact, the heart acts as a brain and it can really pick up on things before the brain even picks up on them. So your heart is in a sense even more powerful than the brain itself.

Now when it comes to the brain and stressors and impacts of the stressors on the brain, that can impact a fight and flight. response from your body. So we know one thing that's really fascinating is that there's a bi directional relationship between the brain and your gut. So your gut has its

[00:08:00] own nervous system and it's called the enteric nervous system.

And your brain is connected to the central nervous system and that central nervous system gets information from the brain and it also receives information from the body. So how that is connected to the gut is through the vagus nerve. So the vagus nerve is kind of like playing operator and it has a bidirectional communication pathway from the enteric nervous system, which is our gut nervous system.

And that basically runs from your mouth to your anus. So basically it runs throughout the whole thing and it has hundreds of thousands of neurons and that is pretty fascinating. But the fascinating thing is that it is connected via the vagus nerve to your brain and your brain connects with your gut.

So when you have stressors that are impacting the integrity of the way your brain is

[00:09:00]functioning, when there are too many Difficulties and coherences 

and dysfunctional stressors 

that can impact your nervous system and also impact you to be more in a fight or flight situation. state, then that can impact your gut health as well. So when the vagus nerve is activated, the vagus nerve can get you into a more rest and digest state. And that rest and digest state is optimal for your digestive system.

And that is what you want. You want your body to be in a state of where fluids can flow freely, because you'll find that if you are in a fight or flight State your mouth gets really dry. It's like the fluids get like dried up and 

what happens is in those situations where your body perceives a danger, it knows that it can't focus on anything else, but the ability to run or to fight if you can't run. So what

[00:10:00] happens is your body automatically will start to send it. blood to the arms and to the legs and away from your organs. So that, where does that move away from?

It moves away from your heart. It moves away from your liver. It moves away from all your internal organs, moves away from your digestion. It moves away from your uterus and your ovaries. And to have yourself be in a state that is chronically like that, it's going to impact how your body is going to nourish itself and regenerate.

And that of course is going to impact your fertility health. So yes, stress can really, really impact fertility health.

But a very big reason for why is also because it impacts your gut health. And your gut health is central to your fertility health. It can impact how your body is able to process nutrients, how your body is

[00:11:00] able to get energy, how your body deals with inflammation, and how your body's immune system operates.

All things that contribute greatly to your fertility. fertility health. And it also impacts your body's microbiome, not just the gut microbiome, but it can also influence your vaginal microbiome and your uterine microbiome. So it can impact so many things and it's such a trickle effect. And that's the thing with a body that is so amazing, but also can be challenging for, you know, Sometimes conventional medicine to approach, because if you take pieces of the body or parts of the body and just focus on that part, you're just not going to get the full picture.

And this is why I love Chinese medicine is because it looks at the full circle, the full picture and how all the different parts work together. And it's like a big, huge web that

[00:12:00] intercommunicates with each other. So when you start to realize that. You don't need to really figure it out all together, and that's a thing that I do want to stress in this.

Um, no pun intended, but I do want to mention that ultimately all the things that I'm telling you is really to give you a big picture about it, but you don't have to figure out exactly how it works. It's really more an understanding. of really what stress can do to your gut.

The reason I say this is because your body's actually really intelligent and your body knows what to do. So when you get it to a state where you regulate your nervous system, and I'm going to be sharing things and to do's towards the end of this. So you can keep listening to find out.

But when you do get yourself to that state, Then your body knows exactly what it needs to do. You don't have to figure it out and you don't even have to tell the body what to do. The body already knows what to do. All it needs is an environment that feels

[00:13:00] safe for it to do so.

Another thing to note is that the brain. not only impacts the gut, but the gut can also impact the brain. So the gut can also impact our ability to produce serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter that impacts your mood and overall wellbeing. So if you have any kind of issues with your gut, it can also impact the brain and that can create more stress.

So it's bi directional. And that is what is so fascinating about this is that you can really impact your gut through your brain and you can impact your brain through your gut.

So besides stress impacting your gut, I also want to mention that it can also elevate cortisol levels, which cortisol is a hormone and again, cortisol has a lot of benefits for the body as well, but you don't want it to be chronic. When it's chronic, it can suppress ovulation. It can also

 Lower progesterone levels. So that's one of the

[00:14:00] reasons why somebody can have lowered progesterone is from high stress. And progesterone is really important. It's important for fertility, obviously, but it's really, really important for pregnancy.

So to, in order to sustain a pregnancy, you need good, healthy amounts of progesterone.

So, I wanted to mention a couple of really interesting studies and one of them was the study on Tibetan monks and what they did was they actually looked at the gut microbiome of those Tibetan monks and also neighbors and so basically what they found was that, um,

the microbiome of the meditators and the microbiome of the neighbors. And they both ate similar foods. They were exposed to the same water. They lived in the same area. The only difference really was that the meditators meditated all day. And what they found was that the gut microbiome and the meditators was a lot more enriched and a lot more

[00:15:00] diverse than the ones of the neighbors.

And that's pretty fascinating because What that shows you is that there are types of microbiome and what it looked like for the meditators is associated with a lot less risk of inflammation and risk of heart disease and lots of different. autoimmune conditions. So it protected them basically by having that enriched gut microbiome.

It protected their bodies, but it also shows us that their meditations have something to do with the gut microbiome.

Something else that I want to note Is if you've been listening to me, you probably are sick of hearing me talk about Dr. Joe Dispenza, because I absolutely have been so influenced by his work. And when I went to his retreat, 

they basically studied the participants blood and their gut microbiome is one of the things that they study in brain waves and amongst many other things. And what they

[00:16:00] found was that when they take the stool samples of the participants from the beginning before they actually start the week long meditation retreat, they check their stools before and then they check it afterwards and they find that it's drastically different and it has way more diversity in their microbiome and it's associated with much better health.

Okay. And so that's pretty fascinating. And that's something that I directly had experience to watching. So it seems like basically that through meditation and through mindfulness practices Or any kind of practices that lower stress that that can impact the gut microbiome, which is fascinating because then it gives us a lot of power.

It gives us a feeling of empowerment that you really can make a difference in your gut just through your mind alone.

Another really fascinating study that I found was that they

[00:17:00] had correlations between certain types of mental disorders and some of them were even mild depression or mild anxiety all the way leading to bipolar and other types that were more severe.

And what they found was that there was an interesting pattern of the microbiome and it was a similar type of microbiome pattern where it showed some microbiome dysbiosis that related to the mental condition. that the person had. So depending on what it was, there seemed to be a pattern in their gut microbiome, which is another incredibly fascinating thing.

And something that I also heard about was fecal implants, I don't necessarily suggest it. I think it's still an experimental phase, something that you might want to ask your doctor about if you really have gone through a lot, but. Definitely do your

[00:18:00] research because I know that it's not something that I think that it's not something without any risks at all.

But what they found, which was fascinating about this, is that when they did the fecal transplant, the person would basically take a transplant of poop, it's kind of gross, from somebody who has a really good enriched microbiome. And they basically transplanted that poop from that person to the other person, who'd take the poop and put it back.

into the person who had dysbiosis or issues with their gut. And what they found was that it influenced their gut health because what happened was that microbiome would start to populate and grow in numbers for the person that needed it. And they found that not only did it help in many cases with gut conditions, but it also helped with mental conditions.

Um, it helped with ADHD and many other types of

mental diagnoses. So it was [00:19:00] really, really, really fascinating that that can really make such a difference, but it can.

So it is kind of cool to know this because then you realize that yes, I can approach this through the gut itself. Which a lot of people do, but many times people get so focused sort of on like the physical body that they ignore the mental body. And I find that I meet a lot of people, whether it's my clients or in person or online.

where they have spoken to functional doctors, they know pretty much what supplements to take, what to eat, and they figured it all out and almost to a point where it caused them a lot of mental stress. But the focus was so much just on the physical that the mental was ignored.

And it is something that is easy to ignore because. It's something that we don't really see, we can't touch, it's something that kind of operates behind the

[00:20:00] scenes, and most of the time, our eyes, when they're open, are focused on the world around us, so it's easier for us to focus on that. and not close our eyes and go within, which is what a lot of these mindfulness practices teach us.

And this is actually something that I cover a lot in my book, the way of fertility, because I thought it was so important. What I found just really in working in this field is that That is the most ignored aspect of our being and it's because it can be actually really frustrating to deal with. It's frustrating to do something and work with something and focus on something that we can't really hold and it's not as tangible.

And it feels like we have less control, but ultimately by doing so and allowing ourselves to experience that feeling, the feelings that come up with it, that's when we actually do start to feel

[00:21:00] more of a sense of control. So it's kind of like a little

paradox in its own experience. but I do highly recommend looking into it. But I'm going to talk about not just the mindfulness aspect, but I'm also going to talk about really tangible ways that you can impact your nervous system. And of course I'm going to mention acupuncture. And that is something that I do.

And acupuncture, is incredibly beneficial on regulating the nervous system. It works on your circuits, basically. I mean, to really say it in the most simplest way, obviously, acupuncture is a lot more complex than just calling it circuits, but it's really beneficial. To say circuits, it makes it easier for the mind to really envision.

Do you basically have circuits in your body and that circuits and the pulses that the circuits bring, which is really the channels inside your body. When you're stimulating that with acupuncture, it can really help regulate

[00:22:00] the nervous system and basically restart that. And so what that does is over time and not in the beginning, sometimes in the beginning you could feel more tired, but over time it'll increase your energy.

But also will help you feel calm at the same time. So I call it calm alert. And I love that combination when you're calm and you're alert, which is the opposite of like having a lot of coffee to try to like force yourself to have energy and then you're jittery. So no, no jitters, you're super alert, but you're also calm.

It's like the perfect combination.

So acupuncture can really support that in many different ways, not just by regulating your own patterns, but also by stimulating the channels and also by doing auricular therapy, which is really addressing the points on the ears. The ears are one area that make the vagus nerve accessible. The vagus nerve, which is that go between your brain and your gut is really, really important.

, when it gets stimulated, it

[00:23:00] actually stimulates the rest and digest part of your nervous system. So that could be really, really impactful on your gut health. And so one of the ways that you could do this, so acupuncture is one of the ways, but one of the ways that you could do this at home is simply by massaging your ears every single day.

You could do this at night and you could do this in the shower. Or you could do this whenever you remember to do it. But massaging your ears can almost immediately have an impact on the nervous system. So it not almost immediately. It actually does have that. So that's something that you might want to do.

And while you're doing that, You can also do some deep breathing. So working that diaphragm. So diaphragmatic breathing where we're breathing from the belly, that's ultimately the best way to breathe. We are trained over time and conditioned to breathe through the ribs and.

while

[00:24:00] the ribs are part of how we breathe, the most effective way to breathe is through the diaphragm. So you can practice this by putting your hand on your belly and feeling your belly go in and out and train yourself to do that. Get back into that. And you can actually train yourself to do that. I used to not do that.

And I, Now I train myself to do that. That is just the way I breathe. It's not going to give you a huge belly. You know, people are so afraid of that, that they start to breathe the wrong way. And ultimately it helps oxygenate your body much better, but then also when you're doing some breathing exercises, it can also calm the vagus nerve.

One of the ways to do this is by inhaling to four counts, holding your breath and then exhaling to eight counts. So when you exhale longer than you inhale, you get yourself into a more rest and digest mode.

[00:25:00] If you have issues sleeping at night, this is a great exercise to do and you could literally combine that with massaging your ears and also slowing down your breath and holding it on the inhale and holding it a little bit on the exhale.

So controlling that breath. And then filling up the lungs all the way and then exhaling all the air out.

Another thing that you can do is hum. So humming that vibration sound from your throat can actually impact and stimulate the vagus nerve. So that's another way to stimulate the vagus nerve.

And generally speaking, things like yoga, qigong, and movement that becomes more conscious can also regulate your nervous system.

And you can also, as you're laying down, if you have any issues falling asleep, you can also do something called Yoga Nidra. You can find many different ones on YouTube

[00:26:00] where they guide you through focusing on the different parts of your body. But becoming aware of your body sensations is another way to really make that strong connection between your brain and your awareness and your body.

So that is really what I have for the mind. But then when it comes to your gut, you could do a lot of things too, to support your mind and to support your gut. And so my number one rule for this, number one, is chew your food. Chew your food so that it becomes complete mush. And I remember hearing, when I was studying Ayurveda, I remember hearing my teacher shared this quote, and I was like, oh my god, this It's true.

And he said, drink your food and eat your drink. So I'm like, okay, you know, it's kind of weird to hear the first time you hear about it, but drink your food, meaning you choose so well that you basically have a smoothie

[00:27:00] in your mouth, ready to like swallow like a drink. And then also taking your time with it.

The drinks and the soups and kind of giving yourself a little more time in your mouth because what happens is Your saliva has these amazing enzymes that help break down your food Once it enters your gut so that is the first process and probably the most important because you want to start that foundation of digestion right and that foundation starts with mastication which is chewing and combining that with with your saliva.

So not only liquefying it, but also liquefying it with liquid gold, which is digestive enzymes that you're able to really get into the food so that the food is able to process and the digestive system doesn't have as hard of a time doing what it does because the digestive system process is actually very energy

[00:28:00]consuming and that is one of the reasons why we need to rest and digest.

We get more tired after we eat because our bodies need energy in order to digest. So when you're doing that, you're actually making it easier and creating a much more efficient digestive process.

Secondly, if you're going to have proteins, Combine them with vegetables or some fibers so that you're able to process it and really chew it. But also the biggest, most difficult to digest meals should be eaten when the sun is strongest outside. What that does is that our bodies respond very much to the environment and it will respond to that digestive fire.

So having that sun very strong will impact our Agni, which is the digestive fire, and that will impact how we're able to process food. And I also suggest eating less at night. As the sun goes down, your

[00:29:00] digestive system also starts to sleep. So it's important during that time to go easy. And you can have soups, steamed vegetables, really, really light meals at night.

and then allow your stomach and your digestive system a little fasting time in the evening before you go to sleep. Your sleep is going to be a lot better because again, all that energy that usually goes into digestion can go into repair, into balancing hormones, into replenishing your body as you sleep.

Plus your sleep will be deeper and better if you, don't have too much in your stomach.

I also highly suggest getting on a good probiotic. And the one I like, and again, it really depends on your gut condition because you might need different protocols, but the company I like is microbiome labs and they do gut testing. They also do,

[00:30:00] they have lots of different supplements. Megasporbiotic is the most common one 

for people with really complex digestive issues, they might benefit from going with something a little more gentle than Megasporbiotic and doing like a one strain in the beginning so their body gets used to it. But I highly recommend their products because they are really, really top notch.

And lastly, you could do this while you shower, you could do this after your shower, massaging your belly is one of the most impactful things, not just for your gut, but it can also impact your uterus and get more blood flow to that area. So really just massaging in clockwise circles.

So as you're looking at your belly, circle around your belly button and you can do a wide circle until you get closer to the belly button and then go wide again and then go back and forth like that. Then you can go

[00:31:00] from the top of the rib cage down to the belly button and then from your pubic bone up and from the sides towards the center of your belly button and diagonal.

And really you are intuitive and your hands are intuitive. So your hands will figure out how it feels good to massage your belly. So you can press in certain points that feel like it needs more movement or if it feels stagnant and you'll get to feel what you need because that's ultimately what happens when we start to connect with our bodies.

And lastly, just a really good habit to get into is mindful eating, becoming aware of what you're eating and not doing other things like watching TV or being on your phone, just sitting and looking at your food because you do start salivating when you look at your food. Looking at your food is also the beginning of digestion.

So becoming mindful with your food, also tasting your food, chewing your food, and

[00:32:00] becoming aware of how certain foods make you feel and really connecting with that because that will connect you to intuitive eating, where you intuitively know what is good for you and what is not good for you. So that concludes today's episode, and I hope you enjoy this. To me, this is a really fascinating topic, and it's something that I think a lot of people should really give

attention to, because the mind and the gut are really both important things in life. when it comes to your fertility health. And it also will help the process so that you don't feel as stressed and you feel more ready and equipped to get through this. because we know the fertility journey is challenging as it is.

So I hope you feel more empowered with this message. And if you guys feel connected to

the content that I am sharing, please subscribe. And I would be so grateful

[00:33:00] for a review. Thank you so much for listening in and I hope you have a beautiful day.

EP 306 The Profound Power of Movement and How it can Support Conception | Desiree Bartlett

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Desi Barlett!

Desi shares her background and how she got into supporting women through life's transitions. She explains kinesiology and its connection to yoga and the body's movements. Desi discusses the importance of releasing emotions stored in the body and the three common areas where tension is held: hips, shoulders, and jaw. She also highlights the significance of starting the day with intention and meditation.

Episode Takeaways

• Kinesiology is the study of the human body and its movements, and it can be used to support women through various life transitions.

• Emotions are often stored in the body, particularly in the hips, shoulders, and jaw. Releasing tension in these areas can lead to emotional and physical well-being.

• Meditation and breathwork are powerful tools for maintaining and cleansing the mind and body. They can help release emotional weight and provide clarity and focus.

• Starting the day with intention and proactive decision-making can set the tone for a successful and fulfilling day. Starting the day with a morning ritual and setting intentions can lead to success in all areas of life.

• Traumatic events can lead to finding one's calling and purpose in life.

• Connecting with the heart and the uterus is important for fertility and conception.

• Listening and being heard are essential for healing and creating a supportive environment.

• Desi offers resources and support for women on their fertility journey.

Guest Bio: 

Desi Bartlett MS, CPT E-RYT, is passionate about sharing the joy of movement. With over 25 years of experience in health and wellness, she holds a bachelor’s degree in kinesiology, a master’s degree in corporate fitness, and is currently pursuing a doctoral degree in exercise science. Originally from Chicago, Desi is also a proud mother of two and an internationally published author.

Desi is currently launching an innovative subscription platform, Desibodymind.com, offering a holistic approach to health and wellness through meditation, yoga, and fitness. At the heart of her philosophy is the belief in the interconnectedness of mind and body.

As a women’s health expert with advanced certifications in yoga, personal training, prenatal and postnatal fitness, and group fitness, Desi has garnered a roster of private clients that includes household names like Ashley Tisdale, Adam Levine, Kate Hudson, and many more. Her expertise has been showcased on major networks such as ABC, NBC, FOX, Univision, Hallmark, and Lifetime.

Desi's influence extends beyond her client base through multiple online classes including DailyOM, Beachbody, and iFit. She is also the author of Your Strong, Sexy Pregnancy: a Yoga and Fitness Guide, a comprehensive guide  and co-author of Total Body Beautiful: Secrets to Looking and Feeling Your Best After Age 35.

Now, Desi brings her wealth of knowledge and experience to Desibodymind.com, where individuals can access transformative content designed to strengthen both their physical bodies and mental well-being. Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or new to the world of holistic health, Desi's platform offers something for everyone. Join Desi, who lives on the picturesque island of Oahu, on a journey to cultivate strength from the inside out.

www. desibodymind.com

Instagram is @mothersintolivingfit and @desibodymind

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Transcript:

Michelle (00:00)

Welcome to the podcast, Desi.

Desi (00:03)

Thank you so much. Aloha from Hawaii. This is a beautiful morning over here on the island and I'm so happy to connect with you.

Michelle (00:11)

I absolutely love Hawaii, by the way. Been there, it's so magical. I have to say, I really miss it now. We've been there like two years ago and I can't wait to come back.

So I'd love to hear your background. What got you started in this work that you do?

Desi (00:29)

So my mother was a hippie and she was a disciple of Goswami Kriyananda at the Temple of Kriya Yoga in Chicago. So I grew up with meditation and yoga since the time I was six years old. When I was in college, I got really deep into fitness and I pursued two degrees. I've got my degree in kinesiology and my master's in corporate fitness. And actually I'm on the brink of getting my PhD right now. I'm also in kinesiology. And so I've just been

Michelle (00:37)

Love that.

Awesome.

Desi (00:58)

extremely passionate about helping women through all transitions of life for many years. I have two children and I know that pregnancy and fertility especially can be such a journey. So it's my pleasure, my privilege, my honor to really support women through all of life's changes.

Michelle (01:18)

Amazing. First of all, I actually took a little and found it to be fascinating. So I'd love to actually start there for people who have never heard of it. would love for you to share it for somebody who's like never heard of it before and

Desi (01:33)

kinesiology is all about the study of the human body. And what we look at is biomechanics and you know, like what muscle is specifically working when you're moving your arm, let's say zero to 45 degrees and then 45 to 90 degrees, et cetera. And so what I've learned is not only anatomy and physiology and really understanding the body from the inside out,

Michelle (01:47)

you

Desi (01:57)

but how the body moves. So when you layer that on with yoga and all of the esoteric teachings, it's so fascinating to me because what I'm seeing now is that what the yogis have been teaching quite literally for millennia is what we're discovering today. So for example, when we talk about something like yoga nidra, which is yogic sleep, when we go into progressive relaxation,

Michelle (02:17)

Yes.

Desi (02:26)

So for example, some of your listeners might've enjoyed a meditation where you close your eyes, slow your breath down, relax your feet, let that feeling of relaxation move to your ankles, and you go through the entire body. What we know now is that there are specific physiological processes that are happening inside of your body that promote this relaxation and restoration on a cellular level.

So on the one hand, I'm full blown science nerd, and on the other hand, I'm like super duper hippie. And when I can prove one with the other, it lights me up.

Michelle (03:04)

I totally get it. Say no more. Because I feel the same way. And you know what's really cool? The more I'm doing this, the more I have guests on the podcast, the more I'm realizing, wow, we're actually at a place that we've wanted to go for so long. And people always thought that science had to be completely different from spirituality, that the two could not connect. But

I'm seeing more and more that they're actually connecting in a beautiful way.

Desi (03:33)

Absolutely. And I think that really also speaks to what you do and what you offer women so beautifully as well in terms of acupuncture. And know, when we're starting to understand like in yoga, we call them natties, the energy lines, we're starting to understand that there's a reason that people have been talking about this for so many years and it's because it really works.

Michelle (03:49)

Mm

Desi (03:57)

So when we're able to bring this knowledge and education to women, especially on a fertility journey, I think it can be such a gift because it's not woo woo, know, there's actual science that's involved. And so if I'm asking you like, hey, let's take this step together and let me support you. I'm doing so from a place of feeling like I can actually help empower you. This isn't just us wishing.

Michelle (03:57)

Mm

Love that. That's beautiful. I really love that. So talk to me about kinesiology, like what got you into it and how can you bridge that or like use that in your teachings and your practices?

Desi (04:37)

I went to ASU and I was originally a broadcasting major and I had a dance class and I noticed that my knee hurt all of the time. And so I went to the university doctor and he said to me, he's like, no problem, you are not injured. You just need to strengthen your quads. And I said, what's a quad? And so he explained to me and his fate would have it that very evening I met

second place Miss Olympia on campus. And I was telling her what was going on. And she's like, all good, girl. I've got you. I'm going to take you to the gym. She introduced me to the leg extension. And I fell in love with fitness. And my joke is that that evening I walked into the gym and I never left. So what I've learned is that you can strengthen your muscles, your joints, your connective tissue. But while you're in the gym or on a yoga mat, we're also strengthening our minds. In order to push through that next rep or to lift the heavier weight, something is happening in our minds as well. We're making a decision to commit to the next level. And I truly believe that that's all applicable to our daily lives. When we feel stronger and our bodies and our minds, we can take that strength, that power into everything that we do with a sense of confidence. Like if I can lift that 200 pound

whatever, of course I can take this conference call. We're good.

Michelle (06:02)

totally. I always say that. I mean, the challenges and sometimes I'll take a course or an exercise class and, and I'm like, my God, I'm dying. like, I love taking the class because I feel so much more motivated when I have a teacher and the teacher's like, I know this is hard, but get through it, go to your breath, you know, and then it gets me to my breath. And I'm like, okay, focus on my breath. And it makes you strong.

internally, like you learn to deal with things that are not easy. So I 100 % agree with what you just said. I totally feel that way myself. not just that, I am so fascinated by connecting with the body. somatic therapy, where it really, you connect with your body in order to process emotions and to process

Desi (06:45)

Yes.

Michelle (06:50)

your internal state. I mean, there's so much more to that than what I'm explaining because that's not specifically my specialty, but it's really fascinating to me because I've learned more and more as I'm doing this. And even with what I do that we process emotions physically a lot more than we think. We think it's all up here in our minds, but it really so much of it is in our bodies. And actually when we do get into our bodies,

That is how we're able to manage them more easily. And it doesn't feel as overwhelming as when we're thinking about them or just staying in that mindset.

Desi (07:31)

Amen. So somatic therapy, remember reading about it the first time probably about, my goodness, 30 years ago, there's a wonderful book by Barbara Brennan. If I remember correctly, I think it's called Hands of Light. And she was a nurse, if I remember correctly, and working with people, and noticed that when she would touch certain parts of their body, it would trigger a memory. It would trigger an emotional response in many cases.

Michelle (07:43)

Mm

Desi (07:56)

Way back when, when I was like a little baby fitness teacher, I remember working as a personal trainer in Chicago. This is like 1996. And I would, I would touch people to stretch them, you know, like just relax your trapezius or let me help you with your hamstring stretch. And I felt and experienced and saw the same thing. When you're that close to someone's energy body.

you can almost feel or I can feel the memory. And I'm like, whoa, what was that? But I didn't have the tools at that time to say, know, enjoy a very deep breath. Let's let it go. And let's let that experience be sort of like a cloud and just let it move on by. We don't have to attach to it. In yoga, we have a technique called neti, neti, neti. I am not this thought. I am not this body. I am not this experience.

Michelle (08:30)

Interesting.

Desi (08:52)

You're the one who's all the way behind all that, right? So now I have the tools to help women especially and empower them. So when there's been trauma, we can talk about it when necessary, especially if I'm working with your body. The body is such a sacred space and it's our temple. So if I have the privilege and the honor of helping to guide your body, of course I'm going to approach it with a deep sense of reverence.

Michelle (08:56)

Right.

Desi (09:19)

And any feeling or emotion that's popping up, we'll say hello to it. We'll see where it comes from, if it needs to be explored more. But let's also start to focus on what is the intention? What do you want to feel today? So if you're waking up with a feeling of like chaos and my gosh, and I'm not sure what the next move is, and I've got this whole to -do list, and I've got this and that, and on and on and on, and the mind is spinning. Well, where do we want to go? Is the intention perhaps?

grounding and then I can help you start to ground and breathe and feel your lower body and so when things come up we can absolutely talk about that and move through it but let's also be really really focused on where we're going so we're not getting lost in a constant loop of what was.

Michelle (10:08)

Mm

And do you see that a lot with the people that you're working with where they have like a real release or something old comes out when they're stretching in a certain way or they're a lot of times in the hips I hear that a lot of people hold a lot of tension in their hips and emotions there as well.

Desi (10:27)

Yes. So three places in the body that tend to store a lot. Number one, as you said, in the hips, specifically the psoas, the hip flexors tend to hold a lot of old tension around fight or flight. So I know you and I have spoken before about fight or flight. Think about it, Michelle, if you're if you're getting ready to like either dig in and fight or just hightail it out of there, what activates the hip flexors? Because that's what activates what you're going to run.

or when you're going to stay and squat and push. So it's totally normal to.

Michelle (10:56)

Right.

Desi (11:01)

the body or for the body to tell us rather, hey, I need to release all this because I didn't even use it. You know, I realized I was only on the 405 freeway. I didn't need to fight or flee. It was just my body spinning out because there was so much stress. So that's where something like yoga comes in and deep hip openers and release. And we can let all of that go. But getting back to my original

Michelle (11:09)

Bye.

Right.

Desi (11:28)

point, the other two places in the body where we tend to store particular emotions, and this isn't one size fits all, you you might experience one thing somewhere else in the body, totally normal. But generally speaking as human beings, the second place where we tend to store it is in the shoulders. And so especially in our modern day like tech neck kind of world, you kind of notice that the voice goes up and the shoulders go up when we get stressed.

Michelle (11:46)

Mm

Desi (11:55)

And that also has to do with like fear and anxiety. So we're carrying quite literally the weight of the world on our shoulders. So we can start to release that and relax the trapezius and breathe into that. And then the third and final common place for us to store a lot of muscular tension is in the jaw. And pound for pound, this is like the strongest part of the body, which is crazy.

Michelle (12:17)

Mm

Desi (12:23)

That's why when we grind our teeth, can quite literally take bone through bone because it's so strong. So this is usually related to words left unspoken, needing to speak your truth, let it out. And how many times in this lifetime have we been told like, just it won't serve you to tell your boss off or that kind of thing. Yes, that's true. But when and where do we actually get to release it?

Michelle (12:24)

That is pretty crazy.

Desi (12:52)

Have you gone for a walk this morning and just, just let it all go with a great big exhale? It can help. I'm of Mexican ancestry, I'm Mexican and Russian. And I remember when I lived in Mexico, I learned the expression, ay un dicho, caerita te ves mas bonita. It means when you're quiet, you look prettier. And so there's this messaging around like, it in. And so I'm here to tell you like,

Michelle (12:55)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, get it out. It's true. It's true. I've been a meditator for a while and I think that I think everybody should at least try it because there's so much benefit to going internally because it really connects you to listening to your body and listening to what's going on. And of course too many meditators will understand this. think if they hear this,

Desi (13:20)

Let it out.

Michelle (13:43)

is that you get a lot of downloads. actually allows for an opportunity for a lot of intuitive downloads. And unless you really allow yourself that space, you may not realize that. But I think a lot of people who everybody that I've talked to that meditates is like, my God, that happens to me. So, so therefore my conclusion is that when you sit and meditate, you do get intuitive hits and downloads. And so one of the things that came to me

Desi (14:01)

Definitely.

Michelle (14:12)

is it's like maintaining and cleansing. It's like you need to maintain your mind and your body by cleansing and releasing often just like you do anything else, even in your household, even the oil in your car, everything, even your body when you're releasing waste. I you need to release energetically. And I think that's something that is so often ignored. And people could just

get in a habit of holding and holding and holding. And it's almost like emotional constipation. Like you literally are holding it in. I know I'm really great with analogies, but you really like literally are holding it in. And so, they say kind of like you're holding so much weight and holding onto so much of the past or things that are holding you back, it's true. Like there's really truth in that.

And so sometimes when I get quiet, that's when I start to feel, I'm holding a lot. I wasn't even aware of that. And I think that that's what is so beautiful specifically with yoga, because yoga is movement and meditation and mindfulness at the same time and breath work, which is a whole other thing, because in the breath work, you can release so much as well.

Desi (15:27)

Amen, yes. So meditation is sort of like brushing your teeth. It's something that we can do daily and it's a cleanse as you were saying. And so if we can simply take the time to connect, I like to share with folks that you can do it first thing in the morning. So when you first wake up in the morning, before you even open your eyes, slow the breath down and perhaps you even go back into the dream state and just ask yourself,

your higher self, show me, show me, show me. What am I meant to do today? What is the dream of my life and how can I take the next step? What is the right next step? And let it reveal itself to you. So in the same way that we have this muscular body and all of the beautiful processes that are happening every day, obviously, of course, we have the vital organs. And it's so interesting to me because

the yogis when they started to understand the chakras and the energetic body, it really lines up to like the organs in our body. So what you're talking about specifically is third eye, right? And so third eye relates to the pituitary. And this is vision beyond what's in front of our eyes. And I think we've all experienced this, whether you're daydreaming or in a deep state of prayer for those of who

for those of you who pray, there's this moment of being able to see like, that's the next right step. And you can breathe into it and you can feel that peace within your body. But if you go directly from the sleep state to the phone and CNN, Fox, like, boy, there's so much happening right now in the world, it will pull you off your center immediately.

Michelle (17:00)

Mm

No, Yeah.

Mm

Desi (17:16)

Before you give yourself to the world, I'm just gonna ask you to give yourself a moment to breathe and really decide for yourself, where is it I wanna show up today? How can I be of service? And I feel like that sets you up for success.

Michelle (17:35)

I love that. I love that because it is a proactive way to really approach your day. And I always talk about the proactive versus reactive because yeah, we can react. We get our phone or somebody wants something from us. Then all of our actions are reactions really to something else that's pulling on us. And so when we do that at the beginning of our day, before we have any pull,

whatsoever. I just think that is so beautiful and that is so wise to start off your day with your own intention, with your own calling, with your own moment. I just think that is a hugely powerful practice. And I know that people who do things like that are more successful, like not just in their business, but I mean, they use this for business

because it works in the business because it's powerful in general. So you could use this for anything, for your personal life, for everything.

Desi (18:33)

Absolutely. And to your point, I think it was probably three, four years ago, all of a sudden I started hearing about morning rituals. And I'm like, all right, the marketing folks have gotten a hold of this technique. And I don't judge. I love it. I love that the word is spread out to everyone because if it works, it's universal truth.

Michelle (18:41)

Yeah.

totally. You can apply to everything for sure. But I remember watching Miracle Morning And then I read the book. It's fascinating. highly recommend people watch the video, which is free. You could find the video for free, but you can also get the book. And I thought it was fascinating. He basically looked, he pulled all the things that people who are successful in their life or like

felt control over their life. What did they do? What's their like magic ingredient? So he would find things like meditation in the morning. It all started in the morning because in the morning it's you're getting in before everybody else gets you. Just like you said, you know, before anything else happens, get yourself then catch it. It's like getting your, know, when you're telling your boss something and you're catching him right before he goes into the meeting into the craziness. And so it's a good time to catch yourself as well.

Desi (19:46)

So I'd love to just also talk a little bit about the why behind all of this. So it's all so fascinating and what we're talking about. You and I are so aligned with our messaging and being of service to women and really empowering women with the tools that they need to create the dream of their lives. And I wanted to share for a moment part of why I do this. So.

I love yoga and meditation and fitness and all the things. And it's been such an integral part of my life and my path. And I don't know why, Michelle, but I'm called to share this story today. On September 11th, 2001, I was on a plane. I had gone home to Chicago for my 30th birthday and I was going back to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, where I lived at the time. And I heard over the intercom, we need to make a landing right now.

And as soon as we landed, I got off the plane and I saw the television screens. We landed in Tulsa, Oklahoma, obviously not the intended place. I was supposed to go all the way to Mexico. And I saw on the screen tower two and the plane hitting tower two. And so I was in Tulsa, Oklahoma for three days waiting for travel to be available again. And I

I made the mistake of watching a lot of the news and it was so heavy to take all of that in because I could feel so much pain, not just my own but those around me. And so I turned off the television and I used my tools and I went into a very, very deep state of meditation. And I said, show me, show me, show me, how can I be of service? How can I help?

And what I heard at that time, and I don't usually share this because it feels so deeply personal, but because we're talking to women on a fertility journey, that's personal and I wanna meet them where they are. I heard, share your gifts, share your gifts, share your gifts. And for me, what are my gifts? My gift to this world is helping you to feel good in your own body.

helping you to feel strong and capable and flexible and do anything that you want. So when the international borders finally opened again, I went to Mexico, I sold everything I had. I jumped on a plane and moved to Los Angeles two weeks later. And the reason I moved to LA specifically is because as silly as it might sound to some, it was really important to me to do.

yoga and fitness DVDs in English, in Spanish, to do prenatal fitness, yoga, all of the things. And so LA was the right fit. And LA was such a gift to me because it also, it led me to my husband and having babies and writing books and all the things. So I just really highly encourage you when there is trauma or pain or doubt, go within, listen.

get so quiet that you can actually hear this is the next right step.

Michelle (22:54)

Thank you so much for sharing that. and I know it was a very personal story. So thank you so much for sharing that. That is a really, really profound, because I think that oftentimes it's such a human reaction when something bad happens or you're feeling emotions that are overwhelming, you want to either distract yourself or make it stop. I think of the saying, the only way out is through.

And I can't say just how true that is. there's, there is no other way, cause it will come back up. And I see that all the time when people come in for acupuncture, or even people say when they're doing yoga, they get into a certain stretch and it does come out because it's being held. If it doesn't go through, it's being held.

Really, if you look at like ancient culture and ancient tradition, ancient wisdom, they always say to go within. They're always pointing you inward. It's incredible.

Desi (23:52)

Absolutely. because of so much of what you've studied comes from China and so much of what I've studied comes from India, we have this Eastern perspective that we can weave into the Western. Eastern isn't necessarily better. Western isn't necessarily bad. And I hear some people saying like, it's so Western. I'm like, well, Western also brought us like antibiotics. So we don't want to throw it away.

Michelle (24:14)

Right, totally.

Desi (24:17)

But we can weave that wisdom of centuries old Eastern traditions into what we know now.

Michelle (24:25)

Yeah, absolutely. Amazing. so working with fertility, I know you do fertility yoga as well. What are some of the things and the tools that you use to help women when they're trying to conceive?

Desi (24:40)

So a lot of what I do in addition to strengthening the body and making sure that the body feels ready to carry a pregnancy is meditation. We go into a very deep state of meditation. I often have women bring one hand to the heart and one hand to the womb, close your eyes and communicate with your baby and invite your baby into this space.

Michelle (24:58)

Love that.

Desi (25:04)

on his or her own divine right timing. It's not up to us. And as much as we want to decide like, it's today, it's this week, it's this year, that baby, that soul, in my opinion, has its own path. And so we honor that and we talk to the baby and we say, hey, know, however it is that you're going to come through, if it's through my body and this vessel, I welcome you.

If it's through another woman's body or another means, I honor you, but I'm ready to receive you in my arms. And so we make this heart to heart call, essentially, you're calling in the baby and you're letting the baby and the soul know I'm ready for you. again, however that comes is beautiful.

Michelle (25:56)

Yeah, I love that. And what's really amazing is that there's this heart uterus connection with, so the heart basically is connected to the uterus. think we spoke about that when I was on the live. Did we talk about that?

Desi (26:08)

We did, and it was the first time I've ever heard anyone say it. So I'd love if you could speak more about it because you intrigued me and I'm like, I love this.

Michelle (26:17)

yeah, it's incredible. I talk about this a lot. actually like have a whole chapter on in the way of such an integral part really of conception, the heart plays a very strong role. I think it's overlooked a lot. And this is one of the reasons why your emotions make such an impact really on everything. I mean, you could say also fertility, but really everything.

but the heart specifically has a role in opening the uterus. So it has a role in labor as well. And what's really, really fascinating is that oxytocin, is coined as the heart hormone, the love hormone, which is one of the other things that I'm seeing as bridging science of the new to the old teachings is that oxytocin

has an impact on contracting the uterus. And it's one of the things that gets things started in labor. So when you're opening the uterus, it's opening for both taking in and taking out. So Ina Mae Gaskin she was midwife and I remember hearing this phrase from her that says the same energy that gets the baby in gets

gets the baby out. well, oxytocin also plays a role around ovulation. increases. Why is that? It's not random. Why would it increase around ovulation? Why would it increase after orgasm? Like around that time? Why would it do that if it had no role? Nothing is left with no role. Like everything's planned in our always something that's there for a reason.

So I always found that interesting because that's kind of like how we measure it in conventional medicine or modern science. And it really correlates to that. And I love the fact that you said that you put your hands, which I think your hands too have so much energy. And when we love somebody, we put our hands on them. So I love that you put your hands on your heart and your womb because having that connection, even touching it, when we're touching something, we're placing our intention there.

And also, you know, our arms are kind of connected via the heart. So it's almost like a circuit that happens energetically. And I'm like, I just think that is amazing that you do that.

Desi (28:39)

It's so interesting that you say that it's like a circuit because if you look at all of the older like statues of the divine feminine, that's how their arms are held. And like you're saying, it's a continuation of the heart energy or the heart chakra energy that travels through the arms and the hands as conduits. And to go back to like muscular science nerd speak,

Michelle (28:57)

Mm

Desi (29:02)

If I put my hands on one of your muscles while you're training, the muscle can and or will contract up to 50 % more efficiently if I'm touching you. So if a trainer is, isn't it cool? If a trainer is like tapping on your bicep while you're doing a bicep curl, it isn't just like, hey, Michelle, this is the muscle. It's to activate that muscle for that muscle to go, wait, yeah, I'm supposed to contract. So in the same way,

Michelle (29:02)

You

That's so cool.

That's fascinating. That is amazing.

Desi (29:31)

Cool. So in the same way that we can remind the muscles, we can remind the organs and the energy body, like, hey, I see you, I feel you, but let's do, let's show up in the way that we're supposed to today.

Michelle (29:47)

I love that. Thank you for that information. Cause that, I mean, that is blowing my mind. I didn't even realize that it was like that responsive, but it makes sense. It makes sense. That would be responsive to touch in general. Like, and we know that that love and touch even for premature babies helps them dramatically. So I always say, you know, if that love and touch helps that, why wouldn't it help the conception as well? And I just think that kind of centering in.

So continue, so you were saying that connecting with the heart and the uterus and just really like getting into your body and making that connection is one of the first ways that you start.

Desi (30:27)

Yes, I work with so many women who don't ever think about their uterus or their womb. And when I say words like vaginal canal or entroitis, there's still a little bit of this puritanical energy that I think we carry, especially in the United States. And you'll hear almost like the little beavis and butt head giggle very often. I do it too.

Michelle (30:46)

Mm

Desi (30:50)

They said that. And so I go back to how you were saying that there's a reason for everything. One of my very first jobs, my goodness, I think I was like just barely 18, was as a weight loss counselor. Do remember Jenny Craig? We used to make us say like all of these ridiculous words like gas bubbles and

Michelle (30:52)

You

Yes.

Desi (31:20)

Constipation. We just, had to see all these words over and over and over so that we were really, really comfortable saying it without giggling because we needed to be able to speak to people about what was happening in their GI system and if that was related to holding on to weight. So when I'm speaking with women, I like to use the words and let's talk about your womb and your vagina and your uterus and the energy that we're bringing into these areas so that we can start to wake it up.

So it's not just like, yeah, down there. I hear a lot of people say down there. And I'm like, down where? Like, let's talk about it. Let's talk to our bodies. And if we want our bodies to be responsive in the way that we want a dear friend to be responsive and to show up for us, let's talk to it with love and respect and by its correct name.

Michelle (31:51)

Mm

Mm -hmm. Yeah. I love that. really love that perspective of just really being there and seeing it for what it is and honoring it and not pushing it away uncomfortably and just really taking it in because I do feel like your body and your intention.

and your own energy and emotion towards it.

Desi (32:37)

Amen. And so what I teach women is about the energetic body and chakras. And the second chakra is, of course, where we unite with another. So if the first chakra is the foundation, we are we're standing on our own as as women or as men. It's the individual. The second chakra is where we come into communion with another. We share our body with another. If we are wishing to conceive, that's the energy that we bring in.

So going back to like Ina Mae Gaskin and the energy that you conceive with is the energy that helps with labor and delivery. How do you want to bring a baby into this world? Is it with love and union and respect and reverence? Yeah, for me, yes. So we got to talk about it.

Michelle (33:25)

Yeah.

for sure. And I also think that I also love working with chakras. I had a background in Ayurveda. So we talked about the chakras and then even Chinese medicine, you can see that there are certain points that correspond to those chakras. what I first saw, it's a thing. It's a vortex on your body. has energy. You can feel it. And even just thinking about it in meditation, just your thought alone, your awareness can release it and work on it. And

Another thing is, so we talk about the chakras, we talk about all the different things, but the chakras are interrelated. They communicate, they're, especially the neighboring ones, they are related. So I always think about like the first chakra is safety. If you're not feeling safe, can impact your period. It can impact your reproductive health. So it's almost like you need to be safe in order to create. you're,

know, second chakra is depending on that foundation of the safety and that rootedness and that groundedness. If you're in survival, you can't create cause you're too busy surviving.

Desi (34:40)

Yes. And to your point, you were discussing, you and I were chatting the other day about how the body holds on to the energy in the arms and the legs when it's in fight or flight. So it can hightail out of a stressful situation. So how are you supposed to conceive in that environment? So it's interesting that every other chakra is individual or communion with another.

Michelle (34:52)

Yeah.

Mm

Desi (35:07)

So we have first is just you, second is the sexual energy, third is your creativity, fourth is love. And so we kind of go back and forth between this me on my own and me with another. And so I think that's really fascinating. So we can start to explore with our partner if we're wishing to conceive, how do we share our energy with one another? And then getting back to nerd science, because I always take it back there, it's also

Michelle (35:15)

Mm

Desi (35:36)

important to think about how each chakra relates to the endocrine system. And so second chakra, you know, then we're talking about like reproductive hormones. And I learned this because I have thyroid issues. And so I've been on Synthroid for like 35 years. And yes, I'm ready to get off it. And yes, I need to work with an acupuncture as like yesterday. But what I learned is that

Michelle (35:46)

Mm

Desi (36:01)

fifth chakra or the voice and listen to my voice tremble as I even say that it it's related to the thyroid. So what's happening in in the second chakra and the reproductive hormonal response it's all related and it's my honor and my joy to teach women about their bodies physically and their energy bodies.

Michelle (36:03)

Mm -hmm.

Desi (36:27)

And I have to just take a moment in gratitude for you because again, I feel this resonance and alignment and you and I speak the same language of Eastern and Western blended.

Michelle (36:40)

Yeah, I feel the same way, Desi. I actually really feel resonant with you and what you're saying. I'm like, you're speaking my language. And I think also about the how in between the heart and the mind is the voice. It's kind of like the go between with your heart, which is right there. And so when we're aligned with that, with the love,

I think that that is very healing, just really loving ourselves, accepting ourselves, allowing ourselves that beautiful gift of expression.

Desi (37:12)

Amen. And so when we're speaking to one another, just as humans, if I'm working with a client, for example, that's where I always start. Hey, how are you? And actually listening. I don't want to just hear that. Fine, how are you? But like, really, how are you? What's happening? What's happening in your body, your mind and your heart? And let that come through. And as they share their voice,

Michelle (37:25)

Mm

Desi (37:38)

That's when I start to get impressions of like, okay, we can go here, we can go there. But the simple act of sharing our truth is so important.

Michelle (37:48)

without a doubt. I think just listening, just because so many people feel, this is what I hear, that they're not being heard. A lot of times when they go to the doctor, they say, like, I don't really feel like I was heard. I didn't really get a chance to ask my questions. I asked my questions, but they dismissed it. And I feel like that just by itself can really impact you on so many levels of feeling, you know, that feeling of safety or being held or being supported.

So I think just being there as a space to listen and for people to be able to express themselves is such a gift that you can give them. And it was interesting because yesterday we happened to have a live yesterday on Instagram. And you were saying that you really feel in your gut, like I was aligned. I feel the same way about you. I feel in my heart that you are very passionate. Like you are coming from such a

purposeful place with the people that you're working with and with your work, which is really amazing. I love it. I really appreciate that. And to see that, I think that if all of us found our true purpose and work through that passion, that's how we heal.

Desi (39:00)

Amen. Yes, thank you. Thank you for saying that. It's received and appreciated. And again, I made a vow to the universe on that day in 2001. This is why I'm here. I continue to honor it, to renew it, and I wake up with my heart full every day.

Michelle (39:24)

I love that so much. So for people who are listening to this, because I'm sure that a lot of people are really inspired by everything that you're sharing, how can they find you? How can they work with you? Because I know that you do bring out a lot of your lessons out for people to receive.

Desi (39:41)

So you can find me really easily through my website. It's desibartlett .com. I have a whole new subscription platform on there for folks who want to enjoy the body mind workout, which is a combination of meditation, yoga, and fitness. I also have books available that are on there, one of which is called Your Strong Sexy Pregnancy, a yoga and fitness guide. And there is a fertility section in there. So if you're thinking, wait, I'm not pregnant yet.

please know that there is a message there for you as well. I'm also super active on Instagram. You can find me at mothers into living fit. So however I can best help support you on your path, I'm here.

Michelle (40:25)

Awesome. Desi, this was such a great conversation. I've really enjoyed all of the conversations that we had even leading up to this. And I'm just so excited to meet another practitioner who I resonate so much with and has so much soul really in what they're doing. So thank you so much for coming on today.

Desi (40:45)

Thank you, Michelle, and thank you for all that you're doing and for letting me be a part of it. It's my pleasure.

EP 305 Is Inflammation Getting in the Way of Your Fertility? | Sarah Wilson

On tomorrow’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Dr. Sarah Wilson of @drsarah_nd. Dr. Sarah Wilson shares her personal journey with reproductive health and how she overcame challenges with her period and fertility. She emphasizes the importance of understanding one's own body and advocating for oneself in the medical system. Dr. Wilson discusses the role of the immune system and gut health in reproductive health, highlighting the connection between inflammation, gut bacteria, and hormonal balance. She explains how basic blood work can provide valuable insights into one's health and offers practical tips for addressing gut health issues. Dr. Sarah Wilson discusses the importance of gut health and its impact on overall well-being. She explains how the gut microbiome plays a crucial role in maintaining a healthy immune system and how imbalances in the microbiome can lead to various health issues. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the need to create a hospitable environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive and shares insights on the use of probiotics and spore-based organisms. Dr. Wilson provides practical tips for improving gut health, such as eating whole foods, avoiding processed foods, and managing stress.

Guest Bio:

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Dr. Sarah Wilson, ND. Dr. Sarah Wilson discusses the importance of gut health and its impact on overall well-being. She explains how the gut microbiome plays a crucial role in maintaining a healthy immune system and how imbalances in the microbiome can lead to various health issues. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the need to create a hospitable environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive and shares insights on the use of probiotics and spore-based organisms. Dr. Wilson provides practical tips for improving gut health, such as eating whole foods, avoiding processed foods, and managing stress.

Takeaways:

• Advocate for yourself and seek answers when faced with reproductive health challenges.

• Understanding the role of the immune system and gut health is crucial for reproductive health.

• Basic blood work can provide valuable insights into one's health and help identify patterns and tendencies.

• Addressing gut health issues, such as inflammation and imbalances in gut bacteria, can positively impact reproductive health. Maintaining a healthy gut microbiome is essential for overall well-being and a strong immune system.

• Creating a hospitable environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive is crucial for gut health.

• The gut-brain connection and the enteric nervous system play a significant role in gut health.

• Managing stress, eating whole foods, and avoiding processed foods are important for improving gut health.

Dr. Sarah Wilson, ND, is the visionary founder of Advanced Women's Health, leading a healthcare revolution across Canada with clinics in Ontario and British Columbia. Overcoming her own health challenges, Sarah is dedicated to empowering women to reclaim their vitality naturally, merging research-backed expertise with her passion for Naturopathic Medicine. Beyond her professional pursuits, she is the Mom to two latino boys under 5 and is a self-proclaimed personal development and mindset fanatic.

www.advancedwomenshealth.ca

Instagram:

@drsarah_nd @advancedwomenshealthclinics

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Transcript:

Michelle (00:00)

Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Wilson.

Sarah Wilson (00:02)

Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited. I just really can't get enough of sharing all of the information that women need about reproductive health and empowerment. So thank you for having me.

Michelle (00:14)

Love it. So I'd love for you to share your background and how you got into the work with reproductive health.

Sarah Wilson (00:21)

It's such a huge conversation, I think such an important one because for so many of us, we get into it because we needed the medicine, right? And we explored that. So my story I always say is a really winding one. I was in and out of hospital my whole life until I was 18 and I was diagnosed with celiac disease, but I didn't fit the bill. And it was a naturopathic doctor that really pushed for that initial diagnosis. And so then, as we all do,

Michelle (00:28)

Mm -hmm, yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Sarah Wilson (00:49)

I avoided my calling and was trying to figure out how to recover and how to work within this and lost my period for almost five years. And so during this time, I was a researcher and I was seeing different naturopathic doctors. I was seeing different conventional doctors and specialists and people just kept saying they didn't know what was going on and they couldn't figure out why I was, like I wasn't exceptionally lean during much of that period of time. Like they just couldn't piece it together.

Michelle (00:58)

wow.

Sarah Wilson (01:18)

I had a doctor, think it was 21, 22, that was like, you might never have kids on your own. If you wanna get pregnant, come back to me, I'll give you a pill, we'll wish you the best.

Michelle (01:28)

So nonchalant.

Sarah Wilson (01:31)

And I just, I always say there's a few breakdown to breakthrough moments in my life and that was a big one where I was just like, absolutely not. I have the world available to me. I have all of this research. There must be something I can figure out. So that proceeded to really get me to push to work and find the research and piece things together. And I did bring back my period. And then when it came back, it was exceptionally painful. I was passing out. I had been on birth control.

Michelle (01:37)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, good.

Mm -hmm.

Sarah Wilson (02:00)

since I was 13 because of the amount of pain and heaviness. And so that's what it was like, okay, now we have to navigate this world of endometriosis and what that means. so yeah, now fast all the way forward, I became an astrophysicist doctor. I have two babies with two tries. I do not live in chronic pain and I'm just so passionate about taking all that research. I had to figure out myself and...

Michelle (02:09)

Mm

Mm

Mm

Sarah Wilson (02:26)

had to bring into practice and navigate how to bring into practice to now be able to give that to patients across advanced women's health clinics in Canada. it's just, it's a very empowering end to a really challenging journey, which I think so many people listening have.

Michelle (02:44)

Yeah, for sure. What I love about what you were saying is that knowing that inner knowing you're like, no, absolutely not. Like you knew it in your heart. Because a lot of people hear that. And then they're like, okay, I guess that's just my fate. And I love, you know, I love when people are like, no, I'm gonna take no for an answer. I'm gonna figure it out. and it's also an intuition. It's like your own intelligence within you telling you, no, there's more to look into. I had a similar

thing a little different, but similar. so what was it, let's kind of go back just because people might be in similar situations with their period, listening to this. What was it that really caused the five years without period? was it being on a pill for a long time? What was it that caused that?

Sarah Wilson (03:29)

So I was actually, my presentation of celiac disease was very different. I was 100 pounds heavier than I am now. I perfectly, I exercised and I was obese. And so what, the brain is such a beautiful thing. And what I believe happened is that being obese, going through puberty programmed my brain for what body fatness, quote unquote, I needed to have in order to be safe to have a baby.

Michelle (03:36)

Mm

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Sarah Wilson (03:59)

And so for most people, they lose their periods around 16, 18 % body fat. I tend to hover around 23, 24. If I dip below that, then my period starts to go as long, it goes wonky. It's much better now, but the research suggests that when you have inflammation interacting with your brain, when you have cortisol interacting with your brain, what happens is we actually change how sensitive we are to the signals between the brain and the ovaries.

Michelle (04:08)

Mm

Mm

Sarah Wilson (04:28)

And so I think that in combination with all these set point theories, there's so many things happening now in the world of set points, that combination is what it was. So for me, getting my inflammation under control, which we'll talk about, getting an understanding that I had stress, but it was physiological stress. I had nutrient deficiencies, I had bacterial overgrows, I had inflammation, like I had all of those pieces.

that were interacting with my brain and my hormones. And so I just needed to go through step by step. I needed to work on my gut microbiome. I needed to work on the nervous system component. But fundamentally, I needed to understand that my body, the way it works and its sensitivity is set at a slightly different point than other people's.

Michelle (05:18)

Yeah, well, for sure. I mean, I think that that's really at the crux of everything is that everybody has their own different set point and different like, you know, responses, their bodies respond to different foods, different environments, different stress factors, just so many things. And I think that that's the key. I often see a lot of people sometimes come in to see me and they're well, I'm taking this kind of like,

combination herbs that I saw online or, you know, so, that's, that's one of the things that I really try to stress to people is that everybody's so different. And so when you were going through that, you were uncovering it. Obviously you had a natural path that you were working with. Yeah, multiple. So they, you had a team.

Sarah Wilson (05:58)

And multiple. Yeah, absolutely. And I think I always say I'm the most energetic scientist you'll ever meet in your whole life. Like data informs every single decision. And then you sit in front of the person in front of you and you say, OK, what's their energy? Right. Like what? How do you need to to build those things together? And so, yeah, I had a team I had.

Michelle (06:09)

Mm

Mm right. Totally.

Sarah Wilson (06:23)

And I had multiple naturopathic doctors try to work their way through it. I had OB -GYNs and my family healthcare team trying to help navigate it. And it was just, I was in the typical situation. I was in the situation that 90 % of my patients are in. Everyone's like, you're fine. It's fine. Your blood work is fine. Right? And that's, think, even for me doing research, one of the projects I was on was we were studying metabolically healthy people, metabolically unhealthy people.

Michelle (06:41)

Right, exactly. Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (06:52)

We were studying them in lean and obese categories. And so the labs going through and they're pulling all this data. And it was the first time that I'm sitting there going, huh, okay. So we can have people that are metabolically very healthy and overweight. And we can have people that are very lean and extremely metabolically unhealthy. And this was, it was such a formative experience because I remember sitting there going.

Michelle (06:55)

Mm

Mm -hmm, right.

Sarah Wilson (07:20)

The blood work, the way we're reading it right now means nothing. Right? Like we need to be rude.

Michelle (07:25)

There's so much more. It's just a snapshot. It's like a small, it's a small little slice. And I think that's something that I often see too, is that we make such generalized assumptions based on such a small little snapshot. And while that snapshot is very important, it's, it's kind of a piece to the puzzle. It's not the end all be all it's part of the whole picture.

Sarah Wilson (07:28)

Exactly.

Exactly, and if we use a conventional reference range that's defined based on disease, like I think in North America, we've really lost the understanding that there's a line between health and disease. Like you don't just jump from one to the other like long jump, right? It's not like I'm healthy today and tomorrow I have a disease. Like there's this spectrum of dis -ease as we make our way to a condition. And I think identifying patterns in labs.

and identifying tendencies is arguably more important than the snapshot itself, you're 100 % correct. And so we have to look at that data holistically and say, how is that changing? How is that modifying over time? But also I think there's so much research now where we can give people back the keys to the castle with that basic blood work, right? Even for example, everyone has had what we call a complete blood count. We've had multiple of them. So that's...

A complete blood count is when we're looking at your red blood cells and your white blood cells. We're looking at the breakdown of those things. It's the thing you get when you walk into the doctor's office, when you get when you walk into the hospital, et cetera. They're always just saying, what's your white blood cells? What's your red blood cells doing, et cetera. And there's two white blood cells called neutrophils and lymphocytes. They are just representing two aspects of our immune system that are fighting bacteria and viruses and they're helping to support the system.

But there is a ton of research coming out to show that the ratio between neutrophil and lymphocytes can tell us about the inflammatory status of the body. So if your NLR, as we call it, neutrophil to lymphocyte ratio, is higher than 2 .5 or 3, chances are you've got an immunological underpinning to what's going on. And so for me with endometriosis, I was in the hospital a while ago now, and I was having a flare, and I was worried about ovarian torsion, because at one point I had had a 10 centimeter endometrial.

Michelle (09:30)

Mm -hmm.

Sarah Wilson (09:40)

like it was very, very large and it's not there now, but I just wanted to go in and make sure that there wasn't something happening because it felt different. And my NLR was six, but outside of that, it was one or two. So this is something I always say to patients, you can even empower yourself just looking at that number and being like, if that number is jumping high and it's correlating with my symptoms, if I have worse menstrual pain or worse mood challenges or

Michelle (09:42)

Mm -hmm.

Mm

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Sarah Wilson (10:08)

I get pregnant and these things jump and then I have a loss, what could that be telling you about your immune system? And I think there's such simple things. Of course, we can run super comprehensive panels of labs and get all of the autoimmune tests. And like I've heard you talk about them on the podcast before, right? You can get really comprehensive panels and that's wonderful. And I love that as a doctor and a researcher, I love data. But what I love even more is saying, let's look at the past two or three years.

Michelle (10:26)

Mm

Mm

Right.

Sarah Wilson (10:37)

What are these basic blood markers telling us about your tendencies and how much we need to dig into different components of health, like your immune system, your blood sugar, those types of things?

Michelle (10:48)

So you could see this basically on just general blood work.

Sarah Wilson (10:53)

Exactly. And so that's where I think for me.

Michelle (10:55)

And do people often look like, do doctors even know to look for that specific thing? So it's kind of one of those things that people don't really look for, but you can kind of dig up your own stuff and just look at the ratio yourself.

Sarah Wilson (11:07)

Exactly. Exactly. And that's why I think I come on these podcasts and I do these things because not everyone has access to a naturopathic doctor. Not everyone can be a researcher. Exactly. So to be able to look at that and start to question, even when I was in the hospital, I was like, are you concerned about that? And they're like, maybe you have a bacterial infection. It's not a big deal. Okay. Okay. Right? But it's...

Michelle (11:16)

Yeah, that's very empowering.

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (11:30)

It's those things that I want people to be able to grab onto and access for themselves because what I know to be true in my practice, seeing so many people, is when you give women access to information about their bodies, they change communities, households, everything. Like it is the most empowering thing for me to come on a podcast and talk about something and then...

Michelle (11:46)

Mm

Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (11:57)

get someone message me and be like, my friend of a friend of a friend told me to look at this and now I'm concerned about it. And I'm like, yeah, you should probably get that investigated. And then it's ovarian cancer. You know what I mean? Like this is how powerful just these conversations are.

Michelle (12:08)

my God, yeah.

Yeah, it's very powerful. mean, obviously when you do see that something's off, it'll get you at least to take the next steps or to investigate it more because you can't really make, you know that something's going on, but you have to like really move further and see what it is. But at least it's going to be an alarm to let you know something's going on.

Sarah Wilson (12:35)

Mmm.

And a direction, right? I, every day, pretty much at this point, I'm talking to someone who's like, everything I was told was unexplained, right? And in the fertility world, if you're unexplained infertility, you either have a baby or you don't, right? So there's clarity in that, no one's saying, your infertility is in your head. But in every other aspect, there's not those clear end points. And so,

Michelle (12:40)

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Mm

Sarah Wilson (13:07)

if someone's dealing with chronic pain and they aren't getting investigated for endometriosis or some other condition, they can be told it's all in their head. So even if they can see on basic blood work, one or two things that are off, it's like, there, go there, let's do this. And I think that's what's so exciting to me.

Michelle (13:24)

Mm -hmm. Right, right.

Yeah, definitely huge. So talk about the immune system. this is one of the things that you can look at, I know that there is a lot of a connection with autoimmune conditions and the gut health and, high inflammation and leaky gut. So talk about that, how people can look into it and how they can address it.

Sarah Wilson (13:53)

Absolutely. So I actually also was a microbiome researcher at one point in my profession. It's so important. And even now, like post pandemic, we've seen it so much more important because historically, what do we always say? Is 60 to 80 % of your immune system lives in your gut. Okay. So there is within your gut, there is, it's so interesting. Picture a PVC pipe, right? On the inside, if there's Play -Doh.

Michelle (13:59)

awesome. Amazing, though, but it's so important.

Mm

Mm

Sarah Wilson (14:23)

that's where the bacteria live, right? But that's actually outside of your body. And so that play -doh is either poop, in those of us who are lovingly chronically constipated, or it's the mucosal lining that the bacteria live within. So that's where the immune system is really, really critical, is within that putty lining. And so what happens is that immune system's job, because it's technically outside of your body, mouth.

Michelle (14:26)

Mm

Mm

Sarah Wilson (14:51)

all the way down to your anus is outside of your body. Its whole job is to say, are you a food and you're safe? Are you a bacteria and you're safe? Are you a virus and you're not safe? Are you a bacteria and you're not safe? And the whole job of that immune system is to sample and navigate. Do I need to kick off an inflammatory response or do I not? Am I safe or am I not? And so what we're looking at is when we start to have allergies.

and we start to have food responses and all these food sensitivities when we start to have bloating and gas changes in bowel movements. That's all telling us that our immune system either one has identified a bacteria or virus that needs to go and it's kicking off a response to it or two, it has what we call lost oral tolerance. It has lost the ability to know between what's good and what's bad.

Michelle (15:46)

Mm.

Sarah Wilson (15:47)

And so in both of those situations, that is going to result in inflammation, not just local to our gut, but throughout what we call our peritoneal cavity, right? So that's gonna be your ovaries. I always say, your bowel and your ovaries and your uterus are friends. Like for those of you who can't see it, they're touching, they're friends. So we have that inflammation in our reproductive system. We have that inflammation affecting our liver.

then it goes into our bloodstream. It affects our joints, it affects our brain. That's why we talk so much about the gut brain connection, because there's that inflammation there. But as a practitioner, my job is to sit here and say, is it that we have so much inflammation? There is this absence of an ability to regulate, should I fight this or should I not?

Is it that there's so much damage being caused by inflammation that now we have leaky gut or impermeability, right? Because the immune system will cause damage and it's trying to fight something and there's collateral damage. So is it that or is it that there's bacteria that need to be modified? And so I think it's really helpful, even like thought experiment to think about it in that way, because so much of the time when it comes to the gut, we

Michelle (16:43)

Mm

Mm

Sarah Wilson (17:05)

are assuming that our symptoms are wrong. Like, what's wrong with my gut? Right? Like, we're a victim to it. Like, our immune system is doing something bad. But nine times out of 10, it's trying its best to protect us. And so our job is to say, what is it protecting you against?

Michelle (17:08)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Mm

Mm

Right.

Sarah Wilson (17:25)

So when we're navigating and we're going through then, we hear all about probiotics and we hear all about these different things and all of them can be helpful and have their place, right? We hear about armor colostrum all the time these days on different podcasts, right? We hear about all these things. And so I always say, think about them and put them in the context of what I just said. So if we don't have enough good bugs and we add probiotics, which are good bugs,

Michelle (17:36)

Mm

Mm right, yeah.

Sarah Wilson (17:52)

then that will take us so far. for, again, for those of you who can't see, I've got my hands up, right? Picture it like a bar graph. So if you don't have enough good bugs and that bar is low and you have too many bad bugs, then the dominant state is bad bugs. So if you add a whole bunch of good bugs, then eventually you can turn that dominant state into good bugs. But probiotics are transient, they leave the system. So you still have that low grade bad bug situation.

Michelle (18:06)

Mm

Sarah Wilson (18:21)

So this is where we hear about berberine, right? We hear about oregano, we hear about black cumin seed, we're hearing so much about all of these herbs now, because what they're doing is they're breaking down the bad bugs to allow the good bugs to grow, to repair the lining. it's, there's such a huge dance with the bugs in the gut and the immune system and how that affects the rest of your body, but what we know for darn sure is that

Michelle (18:23)

Mm

Right.

Right.

Sarah Wilson (18:49)

There are overgrowths that are happening more than they ever have been before of bad bugs. We know that.

Michelle (18:55)

Right. So we're talking about things like SIBO, you know, just that, because that ultimately it starts to kind of go from like the bowels all the way up.

Sarah Wilson (19:04)

Yeah, exactly. So SIBO is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. So it's overgrowth of good bugs in the small intestine. We also have what we call CFO or overgrowth of yeast in the small intestine because the immune system can't defend against the yeast. Then we have bad bugs and parasites, right? So this is where we hear an overgrowth of, I'll throw some names, like Pseudomonas, C. difficile, Clostridium species, E. coli. We have an overgrowth of bad bugs in that situation. And those can be

Michelle (19:11)

Mm

Mm

Mm

Mm -hmm. Bye.

Mm

Sarah Wilson (19:34)

upper but they can also be lower down. And so that's always what we're navigating is saying, okay, is there, if you have an overgrowth of good bacteria and you add more good bacteria, you're gonna be the person who feels awful on probiotics. You take them, you're gassy, you're distended, okay, in that, yeah.

Michelle (19:49)

Right.

Unless, unless they're spore based.

Sarah Wilson (19:56)

The SBOs are such an interesting conversation. They're such an interesting conversation because most of the research is coming out of two labs. And so I agree to some extent and I'm pensive. Yeah.

Michelle (19:59)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Okay. No, tell me, tell me. I want to hear it because, because I've always been told and I've always learned that spore -based probiotics, because, they, they bypass the small intestine, they go all the way down to, you know, the colon that, and then they, and then they flourish and they change the pH and they, they make it so that it's more hospitable for the good bacteria to grow and not the bad bacteria. A lot of times there's like die -off symptoms and it

Sarah Wilson (20:32)

Exactly.

Michelle (20:36)

kind of shifts, even though it's transient, it does shift the pH to create it where it's better for a healthier environment.

Sarah Wilson (20:47)

Absolutely. So it's just like that bar graph, right? I always say if you give the environment for the good bugs to grow and there's not too many bad ones, then they will grow and take over. If you ever, I always tell people picture like an octopus or a cuttlefish, you know they change colors really rapidly? Our bacteria do the same thing. It's called quorum sensing. And so essentially if you create a hospitalable environment, you have enough mucus. This is the other thing, right? Bacteria need mucus.

Michelle (20:49)

Mm

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Mm The mucosal lining. Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (21:13)

Exactly. So if you have that integrity, you add probiotics, and then you can change from a red environment, inflamed, the pH is off, there's bad bugs growing to a good environment. If you don't have that mucosal lining, if your immune system is too grumpy, or if you're in a situation where there's too many bad bugs, then you can't fix it by adding more.

Michelle (21:17)

Mm -hmm.

Mm

Mm

Mm

Sarah Wilson (21:40)

And so that's where we're using antibiotics and antimicrobial herbs and things like that to get that down. Going back to the SBOs, the thing I find really interesting is there's so many, I could like nerd out on this stuff all day long as you can tell, but there's so many factors, right? So when we talk about it bypasses the small intestine, what they mean in that situation is that all bugs are either acid sensitive, temperature sensitive,

Michelle (21:54)

It's great stuff though.

Sarah Wilson (22:09)

oxygen sensitive or yeah, I went through acid. Those are honestly the main ones. There's nitrogen sensitive, things like that, but those are the main ones. So what they're saying is the acid sensitivity means that they will get, and the temperature and oxygen sensitivity means they're gonna get lower down. But what we're seeing more and more and more is that people's stomach acid is off, their pH is off throughout their whole system. They have all kinds of,

Michelle (22:32)

Mm

Sarah Wilson (22:37)

you know, temperature sensitivity changes. And we have all kinds of changes in the hydrogen, methane and oxygen levels within our gastrointestinal tract. So what happens is we're not actually controlling where it's going. We're controlling at what environment it takes hold. And because there's so much dysfunction within the gastrointestinal tract in so many of our patients, I'm concerned that it actually could take hold.

and be present at higher levels of the gastrointestinal tract contributing to issues. And I've seen some... Yeah, that's BOs. Yeah.

Michelle (23:10)

You mean the spore based ones, the spore based? you, because from what I understand, looking into it is that it won't activate until it gets to the large intestine.

Sarah Wilson (23:23)

And that's based on the pH, the oxygen level and the temperature and all of those pieces.

Michelle (23:29)

Okay, I see. So you're saying that it could be a different pH and everything will shift if things are so off, up, you know, higher. Got it.

Sarah Wilson (23:36)

Exactly.

Exactly. And I've seen severe constipation in patients that take SBOs. It's like the only side effect I see, because you're right, there is a lot less bloating gas, those like three to five day battle between the good and the bad bugs. There's less of that for sure. But I have seen like enough patients that got me saying, okay, what's going on there that take it.

Michelle (23:47)

Mm

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Mm

Sarah Wilson (24:04)

and immediately they're super constipated. So we actually use them a lot in diarrhea because of the benefit of that. But it's definitely a space I'm watching the research. It's super interesting. I think just like, so I was, my God, how many years ago now was I a probiotic researcher? least 10. It's a different world, right? Like how exactly, so.

Michelle (24:10)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm. yeah, they're learning so much so fast. Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (24:30)

Exactly. So that's where I always say, you know, you're a good practitioner when you want to refund everyone every five years. You're like, what was I doing? So I think it's just an evolving conversation, but they definitely do have utility for sure. I think there's just, for me, just having been in a research environment, I know how controlled all of those situations are. And so then when they come out into our patient situations,

Michelle (24:35)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (24:56)

We just need to apply different lenses of thought to it.

Michelle (25:01)

Or I mean, you can also add something like Trifola while they're doing that so that you're kind of like counteracting the constipation aspect or maybe some more fiber eventually when they're ready, you know, because sometimes too much of that when things are not great can exacerbate.

Sarah Wilson (25:17)

Absolutely. And like we have studies now that are coming out to show that it's alarming. Over 50 % of people have what we call retained fecal matter, which is like constipation when they don't know constipation. And so I think there's so much that we're finding out and there's so much that's going on within the gut microbiome world that will be.

Again, I'm just always so curious to see where it goes and to see what happens with it. Because even I wrote a book in 2018, I guess. So I was writing in 2017 on insulin resistance and how that worked. And like I talked about in Cretins in a big section of that book. This was like pre -Ozempic days. And people at that point were like, what is she talking about? And now it's so accepted. And that's what six years later, right? They're just like, of course.

Michelle (26:08)

Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (26:11)

So, so much changes so quickly. And I think just staying on top of it is something I value so much. Like even today, I'm teaching an intensive on post -viral immunology for other practitioners, right? So, I'm always trying to navigate what do I see in practice? Because we see thousands of people in advanced women's health. And how is that showing up in the research? And how do we mesh those things and adapt with those things? Because things change so quickly.

Michelle (26:14)

Yeah, for sure.

Mm

yeah, definitely. No, I agree. mean, everything just kind of out does itself. Something new comes along. what I find really fascinating is the gut brain relationship and the enteric nervous system and also the vagus nerve and how that impacts. It's kind of like the go between our brain and our gut. And, and also

Sarah Wilson (26:50)

Yeah.

Michelle (27:01)

the research on that where they've done like studies on meditators and like people in Tibet, Tibetan Buddhists, compared to people that are neighbors that eat the same food, they live in the same environment, but the gut microbiome of the meditators is so much more enriched. So it's kind of like a buy between, yes, we could work from the gut to the brain, then we can also work from the brain to the gut. And it's pretty fascinating.

Sarah Wilson (27:12)

Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely, and even to see the amount of research on people's levels and how that is directly related to yeast infections. We know that that whole gastrointestinal tract, vaginal microbiome, they are so, so, so closely tied to our nervous system and stress response. There's so much, I do.

Michelle (27:34)

Mm

Mm That's interesting.

Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (27:52)

stool testing on myself pretty frequently. I would say even more so than patients, I do it on my family. And it's so interesting to see how it shifts because again, diet and lifestyle can stay very similar. So it's like interesting what caused that shift, what caused that shift, how was stress involved with these things. it's, yeah, it's so fun. It's so fun.

Michelle (27:58)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, it's fascinating for sure. And then also, think about the gut microbiome, I think about the changes, I think about inflammation. I think about the additives we're eating and we're exposed to. mean, those are the biggest things because it feels like it's outside of our control. I mean, it kind of is until we know about it. It's, know, we go eat some places, we have no idea what they're adding and we know that

Sarah Wilson (28:33)

Mm

Michelle (28:40)

thickeners, I mean, there's so many things that can be added. We know that they can really throw off the gut microbiome and that throws off inflammation. So it's kind of like an unintended consequence because you're not, most of us don't know that unless we're doing what we're doing and learn about it.

Sarah Wilson (29:00)

And then you're looking, is there SLS in this? Is this disrupting my microbiome?

Michelle (29:04)

Yeah, but that's what it is. And that's why when people say, I guess, to simplify it is just don't eat processed food as much as, try to avoid it as much as possible. Because even like the good kind can impact your gut. mean, like good processed food, because of all of the excess ingredients that they add in there, that could really throw off your microbiome. That's why when people say just, I guess, like, if you want to say something that's more generalized, is more whole foods, foods that come from the

earth and also foods that are not sprayed with toxins, know, I mean, to try to avoid it. It does feel like an uphill battle.

Sarah Wilson (29:44)

Patients are so overwhelmed, right? It's you're trying to eat whole foods and then you look and they're like, okay, well, what about genetically modified agents? And then what about what's being sprayed on them? And I always say that in of itself is a stress response, right? So we talk about stress and then we make food such a stress. And so I always say to people, the reality is that you could probably do better than you're doing right now.

Michelle (29:45)

Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (30:12)

and what feels reasonable, what doesn't feel overwhelming, right? And we'll actually sit there and go through and say, okay, I need you to eat a low insulin demand approach, because insulin is such a huge inflammatory compound. Insulin is the hormone that controls blood sugar, but it's like 75 plus percent of us are insulin resistant in today's day and age. So it's a huge, it's an epidemic. So I'm like, okay, don't eat a ton of carbohydrates,

Michelle (30:14)

Mm

Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (30:43)

I hate good carbs, bad carbs, but berries, all of those highly colorful fruits and vegetables, don't count them. Eat away, enjoy your life. I'm not talking about that. We all know we shouldn't eat as much bread. Deep fried foods are not helping anyone, right? The starchy carbohydrates, rice, like that. We have to watch those things. We built a culture on creating addiction to carbohydrates. So we have to be careful of those things. But it's like, how can you add two servings of vegetables? If you can...

Michelle (30:52)

Yeah.

Nope.

True.

Sarah Wilson (31:12)

buy local and you know where they're coming from, rock on. Like it's summer here right now. There's farms that I know do not spray anything, but they cannot certify organic because they can't afford it. Okay, wonderful. I can go there, right? Buy frozen organic. It is pretty much the same price to buy frozen organic as it is to buy broccoli right now, right? And saves my life prepping it. It is picked right.

Michelle (31:26)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm. 100%.

Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (31:41)

It is frozen right away. There's benefits to it. So it's like, do that. Okay, then we look at our meat. How, or if you're eating meat or not, How is it being raised? Would you want to go visit that farm? Because if you would not feel good around that, then energetically that has an impact, right? What hormones are going into it? We look at those things. And the reality is, if you can't...

afford to make those choices wonderful. That happens. What do we do to feel the best about the options that we have in front of us? Fundamentally, I always say balance blood sugar and a nervous system that is stable and you're not having anxiety every time you put food in your mouth because you don't know what's in it. That is going to take us almost just as far as micromanaging every piece and every ingredient. Whole foods more often

eaten away that fills you up, that makes you feel good. And everything else from there is customizable. But I think I hear so many patients, they get so caught up in fresh, organic, grass fed, grass finished, researching the farm, and then they end up in McDonald's.

Michelle (32:57)

Yeah, that's not good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (32:59)

because they're so overwhelmed, right? They're like, I'm just hungry. And so I always say like a happy balance is always gonna be the goal.

Michelle (33:08)

Yeah, no doubt, for sure.

Sarah Wilson (33:10)

And your microbiome loves colors and there's not many of those at McDonald's, so. Exactly.

Michelle (33:14)

Yeah, variety for sure. Yes, totally. And then you were talking about like symptoms even without a diagnosis,

Sarah Wilson (33:24)

So the blood work is one piece, right? So even without a diagnosis, you can do complete blood count. You can do something called a C -reactive protein, which is a marker of gut inflammation, liver inflammation. You can do an arethrocytes sedimentation rate. These are blood markers. But I also say, if you are struggling with joint aches and pains, if you feel like you're just getting older, if you are dealing with brain fog, if you...

Michelle (33:26)

Mm

Mm

Sarah Wilson (33:53)

have pain with your periods that we have normalized so much as a society. If you have period poops, if you have PMS that is affecting your quality of life, like we have so many of these symptoms that we've been told, I'm just getting older, I have aches and pains, I'm just bloated and gassy, it's not a big deal, I just have brain fog, I'm losing my memory, right? I can't remember where I put my keys.

I'm dealing with like menstrual challenge. That is all inflammation based, all of it. And as someone I think who lives in this world all the time, it's so easy to forget what it feels like to feel crappy until you get hit. And I have two small children. I have a two and a five year old. And so we're sick all the time, right? Like it's just the reality, daycare, school, people get sick. And

It's so easy to just again, lose track of what good actually feels like. And it doesn't include those things, right? You should wake up in the morning feeling rested, unless you have a child who has nightmares about monkeys, which happened to me. Right? But you should be able to sustain that energy throughout the day without eating food. You shouldn't have to compromise your activity and your work schedule based on pain.

Michelle (35:05)

Right.

Sarah Wilson (35:17)

and energy levels and your menstrual cycle or your digestion. And so many people are living in that state where they are.

Michelle (35:22)

Yeah.

And so when you do have people that come in with inflammation, what are some of the ways that you address that

Sarah Wilson (35:33)

absolutely. So my belief structures, there's only five to seven causes of disease, right? So we go through blood sugar dysregulation and insulin resistance, the gut microbiome, immune dysregulation, we've got liver issues, we have nutrient deficiencies, the nervous system, and then we have the components of cellular energy production, or what we call our mitochondria, right? So these are the components of health. And at the end of every piece of that,

you're going to have a stress response and an inflammatory response, which is what most people are dealing with in today's day and age is they're struggling between that balance of stress response and inflammation. So my job is always going through those components and saying, which are the top two or three for you, right? If we're talking about microbiome issues and the immune system as two key pieces.

And then we say, okay, let's compliment that with the nervous system because we just talked about that. If those are someone's top three pieces, then first and foremost, we have to go through and say, what are the biggest obstacles? What are your gut symptoms? Does that suggest that you might have an overgrowth of methane species? Right? Does that, that tends to be constipation, lots of gas that doesn't smell great. Is it suggesting that you have hydrogen overgrowth? Right?

that's lots of gas that doesn't necessarily have a smell. We can go through, pick those apart. Do you have a history of parasites? Right, do you camp a lot? Those pieces, we're using antimicrobials in those situations to try to create some stability. We're trying to understand how that's gonna relate to blood sugar, et cetera. When it comes to looking at the immune system, there are key nutrients like vitamin D. If you don't have vitamin D,

at the right level, which most of us do not, that's a master controller of your immune system. So we need to have that in place. We also need to look at your viral history. So we know right now, research is showing that you can retain components of viruses for years. We've seen that people have reactivation of chronic viruses and those are directly affecting the lining of their uterus, they're directly affecting their ovaries.

Michelle (37:44)

Mm

Sarah Wilson (37:55)

and their whole pelvic health. So in that situation, we're saying, okay, what antivirals need to come into the mix? And what do we need, again, to look at from a holistic perspective? I know you've had so many people on here that talk about NAC and N -acetylcysteine and alpha -lipoic acid and CoQ10. And oftentimes what they're doing is just helping with those inflammatory cycles.

Michelle (38:22)

Mm

Sarah Wilson (38:22)

right, they're helping to restore balance to that inflammatory pathway. And then the nervous system comes in because that affects blood flow that affects your immune system's ability to do its job. And we say what works for you? Is that nerve nerves, right? That's where our valerian our passionflower, our zycephos come into the mix and are so beautiful. Is that going to be something where it's we're looking at meditation and walking?

and all of those pieces. that's really the approach I take, is I say, in those five to seven different causes that someone could have, what are the most important pieces for them? And then we dig into it at depth to say what components, whether that's using blood work, whether that's using functional testing, honestly, at this point, having seen as many patients as I've seen, sometimes it's insane. You're like, okay, I think we need anti -microbials.

some valerian and passion flower, and we need to correct the nutrient deficiencies that are present with respect to vitamin D and some of those antioxidants. We need to get enough protein, more colors, Bob's your uncle. But it's, I always say, health is so simple, and we have so much time and energy dedicated to making it really hard. And...

Michelle (39:31)

Right.

Sarah Wilson (39:42)

the more sophisticated I get, the more sophisticated the research gets, the more I go down rabbit holes, the more I come back to the same things. And I think there's so much peace in that too, to know that, yes, I have a lot of patients with very chronic health issues, with very significant imbalances, but the body wants to come back to those places and we just need to figure out which levers to pull to get it back to health.

Michelle (39:49)

Right.

I love how you put that. It's true. It's just like, are the levers to pull, to try to help it do its job. what it wants to do really, it's like its purpose.

Sarah Wilson (40:24)

Exactly. it's so, like sometimes you're pulling the same levers in rotation, right? You're like, okay, blood sugar, stress response, liver. And then you're like, inflammation, gut microbiome, stress response, blood sugar, liver. It's, you sometimes have to cycle back to those pieces. There's like the layers of the healing onion. So as we always say, but it's, there's so much simplicity that can be had within all of it. And I really want people to feel that because I think,

Michelle (40:28)

Mm -hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (40:50)

There's a lot of energy now being dedicated to feeling like health is gate kept and it's not, right? This is why we come on these podcasts. This is why we do these things. If anyone today says, I feel empowered, I can take action here. I'm gonna add more vegetables. I'm gonna add more colors. I'm gonna go for a walk after my meals, ideally in nature. I'm gonna look at what brings me joy.

Michelle (40:57)

Yeah.

Sarah Wilson (41:17)

and include more of that. I'm gonna work on my boundaries, I'm gonna correct my nutrient deficiencies, and I'm gonna look at my microbiome. You will get so far, so far in your health. And that to me is just, it's so beautiful.

Michelle (41:26)

Yeah.

yeah, for sure. mean, it's really empowerment. So, well, this is great. You shared so much amazing information. I could definitely keep talking to you because there's just so much that we can keep unpacking. But if people are interested in working with you, want to find out more about you, how can they find you?

Sarah Wilson (41:53)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you. know I was, these are always such loaded conversations because we start and it's like, do we go here? Do we go here? So exactly.

Michelle (42:00)

I know. There's just a, a, branches out and it has, it starts to take a life of its own. And then I'm like, okay, well, we still can't keep going, going, going. at one point.

Sarah Wilson (42:11)

I know totally. Yeah, so I, as I said, for anyone listening in Canada, I own Advanced Women's Health. So we have clinics across Ontario and BC and we're expanding. I have a whole team of practitioners that do clinical rounds every day and I work with all the time. For those of you in the US, I do have courses where I train naturopathic doctors. So if you like this approach and you want people who are in the US and beyond.

then you can always reach out to my team as well. Their email is just info at advancedwomenshealth .ca and they've got that list of practitioners. So in either situation, we can help you out. I also poke around on Instagram. I do not post on there as much as I should, but it's always a goal. And yeah, I'm just so happy to connect with the audience.

Michelle (42:52)

Amazing. Well, Dr. Wilson, this was very informative and I love the fact that you do so much research and this is based on like real data and real information and you really understand it. Your mind tends to work that way, which is awesome because you have to find a career where your mind is really able to absorb that information and then apply it. And it sounds like you found a perfect.

career for what you do and you're passionate about it as well.

Sarah Wilson (43:20)

Thank you. Yeah, no, I'm so fortunate. I love what I do. And like, I'm so fortunate that I get to build a team of people that begrudgingly love my brain. They're always on calls because we meet every day. So our team of practitioners meets every day and they're always asking questions and I'll spin out on something and I'll be like, welcome to the Ted Talk. Sorry, that just happened.

Michelle (43:31)

No, it's very interesting.

Amazing.

That's great. Well, that's how you know you love it. That's how you know it.

Sarah Wilson (43:44)

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been such a joy. yeah, I just I love sharing this information. I'm happy to come back and share more anytime.

Michelle (43:55)

Yes. So thank you so much for coming on.